What’s the difference between these two fly in runs?

A: 15m run in with 30-40m fly

B: 30-40m run in with 20m fly

Does one focus on more accel vs top speed?

A higher level athlete with a greater speed capacity will need and be able to utilize a longer build-up. Most people will use build-ups of at least 20-30m.

Some will use a shorter build-up in training to work on pick-up a little earlier in their acceleration phase than speed change drills would probably affect- as in the bottom of the page in this link-acceleration fly-ins. At least that’s the theory.

Nice, I thought the shorter lead in was a bridge between aceel and top speed similar to CF using a 20m lead in with 20m fly to work on accel while prepping for top speed work to follow?

It could serve as such a bridge I was just comparing the differences between the two different runs you described for a given athlete.

If it’s a high level athlete and unless they are trying to use the flys with short build-ups to develop early acc. pick-up as I described above (acc. fly-ins which I don’t see in many programs)and the goal is to develop max. velocity, a 15m build-up would be too short.

If one was doing a program similar to CF, I’m assuming you wouldn’t need the short lead in flys since EFE/FEF does the same thing?

I would not think they would be necessary if you are including the speed change drills in the program unless you believe that those shorter acc. fly-ins hold some value to you or the athlete you are training but as I said, that’s more for early acc. pick-up.

If it’s max. velocity you are trying to train then you should go with longer build-ups-at least 20m and for most athletes I believe that 20m is on the short end but maybe not a bad place to start those drills within a program-you have to decide for yourself if that’s appropriate.

The speed change drills, particularly the EFE, won’t probably have exactly the same effect as a fly-in where you are supposed to be at or near max. velocity. This is why, as mentioned before, that 15m (and possibly 20m depending upon the athlete) might even be too short for a build-up to a fly-in.

Speed change drills don’t really allow for max velocity (though in part it is a tool to use for max. vel. development) because of the way the drill is structured into 20m segments but then that’s not really the purpose.

Sample Block:
Block 2 of spp:

Session 1: 4-5x60 efe
Session 2: 2-3x60 efe+2-3x60 fef
Session 3: 4-5x60 fef
Session 4: Unload

Block 3 of spp - longer portion is buildup
Session 1: 3-4x20/20+2x60
Session 2: 3-4x40/15+2x60
Session 3: 1-2x40/20+1-2x40/15+2x60
Session 4: 2-3x40/20+2x60 Unload

Nothing wrong with the 40m build-ups but an alternative is to move from 20/20 to 30/20 then, possibly, 40/20 or just 30/20 to 40/20.

Is acc. work still present in block two but just not shown? In an earlier block, acc. work should still be a, if not the, priority-IMO-with speed change drills mixed in.

Sorry I was in a rush, the flys progress from:

Session 1: 3-4x30/20+2x60
Session 2: 3-4x40/15+2x60
Session 3: 1-2x40/20+1-2x40/15+2x60
Session 4: 2-3x40/20+2x60

Yes, accel will be done year round.

Block 1 of spp:
Day 1: Contrast accel work
Day 2: Hills
Day 3: Main focus low volume skips/bounds+100m of accel work

Block 2 of spp:
Day 1: EFE/FEF
Day 2: 30-40 block starts
Day 3: 55-60m sprints

Block 3 of spp:
Day 1: Flys+60
Day 2: Speed End
Day 3: 20-40m starts

It’s a great thread you opened lacrossetrack! I really learned a lot from it. It confirmed my ideas and I won’t have to bother with anything similar.The answers provided from Pioneer are of great value! Thank you to both of you…

YW, what were your ideas?