She hasn’t done any plyo’s since mid-season.
The change in her lifting was about 2 weeks before the State meet, I dropped her lifting to just a couple days of ***EDIT:>>>> UPPER<<<< body only lifting.
One week ago she has returned to her lifting program.
I wouldn’t panic yet. The stretching on the way there would have been counter productive. From experience stretching has the same effect on muscles as training or time trials close to competition. Keep the faith.
Interesting, regarding the 600-800; however, as Charlie said don’t throw the baby out with the bath water just yet. The continued exposure to alactic sprints will be vital for her development even if she doesn’t end up specializing in the short sprints. The skeletal fiber conversion and cardiac adaptions necessary for high results in the 800 are a much more trainable shift than the alternative.
Clearly I am biased towards “speed”; however, even the 800m titan David Lekuta Rudisha is ridiculously “fast” in that when he is in top form he’s going out in sub 49.
Including today, K has still been feeling fatigue, heavy legs, lethargic, light headed even to the point of almost fainting, flu-like sick feeling, all pretty much consistently on a daily basis since competing at the State Championships 3 weeks ago.
On june 11, K went for a physical at her doctor and I asked for blood work to be done.
After talking with her doctor, she agreed that K should see a sports orthopedic if the symptoms didn’t get better soon, as I convinced her that ‘normal’ for a sedentary type person is not the same as ‘normal’ for an athlete.
About a week ago I got a call from the lab technician, who told me everything was ‘normal’.
I went to K’s doctor and got a copy of the blood work.
I just wish I would have thought of this before…but I associated it with distance running… but now have found that especially females that do extensive training are susceptible to iron losses and if you are losing more than you are replacing, your body can only make up for it for so long, then there will be problems.
In the summer of 2011, K, who was an incoming 9th grader, had been training with her new High School cross country team for about 2 months, when K had symptoms nearly identical as to what she is having now, just not nearly as severe.
I took her to a doctor, had blood work done… and sure enough, she had a low Ferritin level of 21.
After getting her on Proferrin ES iron ‘food’, and a steady diet of oysters, beef liver, spinach, beans & lentils and all washed down with orange juice (vitamin C increases the absorbency or iron) in about 3 or 4 weeks she was feeling great again.
In early September of 2012, after a somewhat easy summer track season, and a late start of cross country due to medical and other issues, K had a physical and blood work done to make sure everything was ok.
At this time, her Ferritin level was at 57, which is probably her ‘normal’, much, much higher than the 21 she had the previous year, and an indicator as to why K felt so good at that time in 2012.
back to now, June 11, 2014… her Ferritin level is only 17, which is quite a bit lower than the 21 she had so many problems with in 2011…
On all 3 blood tests, ‘normal’ Ferritin levels were expressed to be between 12 - 160 but most ‘experts’ I have read, say that with a female athlete, ‘normal’ Ferritin levels should be higher than 30, many say much higher.
Actually, I am relieved, as this is something easily fixed…but it does take time…
K will seeing her asthma/allergy doctor on Tuesday, I will still be making an appointment with the sports ortho tomorrow, all to make sure that nothing more is gong on.
Hopefully, this is just a matter of low iron.
There is a lot of info on the net about this subject, here is a short article:
http://www.familydoctor.co.nz/conditions.asp?C=11334&A=29107&maincat=yes&
Did they also check vitamin D? Likely low as well. Hemaplex, found at Vitamin Shoppe, is one of the common brands pro distance runners I know take. It’s about $10 a month. If they didn’t test D, I would have her take it. I use Carlson drops found at Whole foods. I put it in the last bit of my water in the morning.
I’ve had many girls with the same issues. I bug parents to get blood work, but sometimes doctors get in the way, and the families can’t do wellness FX or inside tracker costs, which do not require doctor write up. I have a fine line issue as a coach recommending supplements to kids, as our state rules go into this. However, as a parent, I would get my daughters on iron, D, and calcium.
Glad they resolved the issue. Iron supplementation takes time. To get her above 40 might take 6 or more weeks. I’ve had runners ferritin at 11, 13, and 14, and that was their response. They took the daily dose of hemaplex. It can be rough on the stomach so take it with a meal. I might recommend taking it 2x daily until she gets re-tested. In conversations with a few pro distance runners, rumors of some groups taking 2-4x daily amounts of iron have been common. However, they are also getting tested frequently.
someone told me once that you shouldn’t have calcium and iron together because the calcium interferes with iron absorpsion…
The best non-prescription iron supplement (actually, it’s not classified as a supplement, it is a ‘food’) is Proferrin. It is the only supplement, other than injections and IV, that will build up iron in the blood in a matter of weeks, instead of months.
K used this the first time she had this issue in 2011 and in a matter of 3 to 4 weeks she was feeling back to normal.
Low levels of Vit. D, Magnesium and B12 all go hand in hand with low iron and levels of these should also be ordered in the blood workup.
As for resolving the problem, that is not ‘for sure’ yet, as she is still seeing a couple more doctors just to make sure there are not more issues at hand.
She sees her asthma/allergist today and this morning I will be making an appointment with the sports orthopedic/Family med. doctor.
This happened so sudden, that there very well could be other issues that caused the drop in iron or that that is just a symptom of something else.
Yes, it is very frustrating dealing with doctors who are ‘by the book’ and don’t understand that a ‘number’ is not universal, especially when most of the numbers are at the lower end or bottom of a scale and other factors play a huge role.
They can be very closed minded.
Yes, calcium is an inhibitor in the absorption of iron, also:
http://www.irondisorders.org/diet/
From the list it is surprising to see that Spinach, which is commonly known for it’s iron, but, because of the oxalates contained in the spinach, the iron cannot be absorbed. Also from the website, all the other foods that are in themselves healthy, but are also absorption inhibitors.
In the past and now when K ate foods specifically for the iron, she did not eat anything that was a ‘inhibitor’ for at least 2 hours before/after eating the iron rich food.
She would drink orange juice with each meal, as the vit. C contained increases iron absorption.
It is also important to be careful when purchasing orange juice for this purpose, as much of it sold has been supplemented with calcium…
K’s condition still the same.
Seen allergy/asthma doctor, still waiting for referral for Sports doctor to go through…
She has been quite frustrated and losing confidence.
K kept pestering me about running the 800m. I told her if she did run it a couple times this summer, that she would still be doing her normal sprint training, that her medical issue is just temporary.
She went to a meet last night.
K ran in the 100m and 800m.
During the 100m, again, legs heavy, feeling weak, lethargic, no ‘power’. She did not do well, and it was expected.
She did not do bad in the 800m, especially considering her present issues and that she has not trained nor has ran the 800 since middle school… which was only 3 times.
This gave K confidence again and excited her, as she said she just ‘jogged’ the first lap, and ‘jogged faster’ the second lap… she said it was hard to be patient and just pace the leader during the first lap, that she could easily have ran a much better time.
Video of the 800m, K starts in lane #3, wearing white top/black shorts:
Impressed with what I saw in the video. Could be a true talent in the 8 with greater exposure to the event.
An update, as it has been awhile since last post.
Still having same symptoms: fatigue, lethargic, feels like not getting enough oxygen, dizziness, weak, nausea, loss of coordination, sleeps a lot during the day, loss of appetite (though, she is on an eating ‘schedule’). We have been having a hot summer, daily temps average 90 to 100 F, which also sucks the energy right out of her, so she what practices she does are done in the later evening.
These symptoms obviously not only warrant blood work-ups to check for anemia/low serum ferritin, but also to check thyroid function, adrenal fatigue, mono-nucleosis etc. From my own experience, Doctors can be a big problem in treating this, even Sports Medicine doctors.
Every Parent/athlete, needs to become aware and have the knowledge to be able to Advocate for their child or themselve
Since going to the doctor and getting the blood labs a month ago we have played ‘the doctor game’.
‘K’s regular doctor went on vacation the next week.
I had asked for a referral to a local Sports Medicine doctor who had a good reputation to deal with this, as the current doctor admitted her ‘training’ was that if a persons Hemoglobin was ‘normal’ and the serum ferritin fell between 12-160 (for a female) that a 17 (or 21 in 2011) was in the ‘normal’ range.
In between doctors, I contacted a local Hematologist by email, in hopes that he might actually reply… to my happy amazement he replied the same day and we had many exchanges over the next week or so. I also emailed him ‘K’s blood work from 2011, 2012 and the most recent, 2014. I did not have blood work done in 2013, as she no longer ran cross country then and at the time, I understood iron deficiency to mostly affect distance runners.
He told me that “NO”, ‘K’s serum ferritin level was NOT normal, and that it needed to be ABOVE 50, and that with her serious symptoms, there could be other issues, and that she was a candidate for IV iron.
Continuing with the ‘doctor game’ I finally was able to get ‘K’ in to see the Sports Med. Dr. 2 weeks ago…up to that time, I was continuing ‘K’s diet addition of liver, oysters, iron supplements and lots of orange juice.
At the Dr. visit, I explained the situation, that this was something ‘K’ went through in 2011 and was fixed with iron supplements and diet additions and that she had all the classic symptoms of anemia: fatigue, lethargic, nausea, feeling like not getting enough O2, dizziness, loss of coordination, lack of appetite etc.
I also explained that I had been exchanging emails with a local Hematologist and what he had said.
I also added that this could be a thyroid issue, mono-nucleosis, or other health issues that I felt she needed other blood labs ordered.
This Dr. did not listen to anything I said. He told me, “yes, this could be multiple things, maybe even 5, but I don’t think so” he kept going on about how even though the ‘evidence’ and ‘symptoms’ supported my concerns and did not point to his, that he still felt that ‘K’ was suffering from low Glycogen reserves…
I was in complete disbelief at this guy… he refused to do anything other than refer her to a Dietitian…… he then said “I have had a couple girls come in that I recommended the same to, and I have not seen them since, so it must have worked”…
I emailed the Hematologist and told him what happened. He replied that the Dr. is not a Hematologist and ‘doesn’t know the literature’ … a nice way to say he didn’t know what he was talking about when referring to the low ferritin. He also said she needed more blood labs.
The same day I contacted the referred dietician, as I thought it wouldn’t hurt… after answering her questions and also sending her the copies of blood labs I had, she told me that my daughter needed a bunch more. She said it was useless to even talk until the results of the labs came back and other issues looked at.
She said, first of all, the low ferritin levels need to be addressed, as that was a known issue.
She asked if I could go back to my daughters ‘regular’ doctor, and ask for more blood labs and to add some that she would like specifically.
She emailed me a copy of the labs she wanted done.
Last Thursday was able to see ‘K’s regular Dr. She ordered up a bunch of labs, for thyroid, mono-nucleoses, adrenal fatigue, etc. including those from the dietitian. She also has referred ‘K’ to the Hematologist.
Should hear back on all the labs by Tuesday.
During this time, I have reduced workouts in both number per week and work done in each. One or sometimes even 2 days a week she just doesn’t feel good at all, so just an extra rest day.
She is just taking it easy and enjoying track this summer, no expectations. The couple of meets she has gone to she has gotten to see her friends and the meets are treated like ‘mini’ vacations, working in other activities into the travel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejeaC6hN_o
-at 2:15 into video steve fudge(coach of james9.91dasaolu) talks about how they used saliva(spit) testing twice per week for weeks after dasaolu ran his 9.91pr, to monitor what was happening inside his body. Basically he sort of says after his 9.91 natural testosterone dropped for perhaps 14-21 days and cortisol went upfor similar time. Then natural testosterone started to come back to natural levels. Says the adrenals were allover the place.
Thanks for sharing the video, very interesting.
I don’t have any reference testing to go with the saliva cortisol testing, as this is her first time being tested for this and not sure if her test results are looking for the same, as to the saliva cortisol testing of Dasaolu (she had ‘Cortisol Saliva LC/MS/MS’ test) I am very curious what the results will be.
The most important though, is to get her back to ‘normal’ and know that she is ok.
Rich, keep fighting her for. It’s sad doctors like the one described are way too common, and ones like the hematologist are rare. It sounds like hema. understands a bit about athletics.
Thanks ESTI.
This was the second time ‘K’ had seen the Sports Med./Family Med. doc.
The first time was in 2010 when ‘K’ had a stubborn groin strain (she was on a boys wrestling team and strained during a match) that started to also effect her knee and had kept her from running for a couple weeks, as per a local sports chiro (different doc) recommendations.
All he did was send her to x-ray, when nothing showed up on the x-rays he said “if I can’t see it on an x-ray, I can’t treat it”, then sent her to a ‘physical therapy’ facility for 6 weeks (multiple 1,000’s $$) to ‘strengthen the injured area’…
After the talking to the therapist and ‘K’ having her 1st visit, it was obvious that this facility was meant to make $$ and the staff didn’t really know what/why they were doing.
I took ‘K’ 170 miles to the ‘magic’ doctor, he had her fixed, running and feeling better than 100%, in only one visit… and only charged $65 (student athlete).
The next day I talked to the physical therapist, told her ‘K’ no longer needed their services.
have you considered taking her back to dr magic for this latest issue??
Still waiting for other lab results, but received a call from Dr.'s office that the mononucleosis test was positive and that the antibody count was still very high, meaning that it had been a serious infection.
Not good news, but at least we now know more of what has been going on for almost 2 months, not just the diagnosed iron deficiency, but also mononucleosis.
Told to stay out of heat, take it easy and get lots of rest/sleep and fluids.
Ok to easy training and limited event/meets, to be conscious of symptoms and fatigue…when tired lots of rest and not to push herself. This is pretty much what has been the norm for awhile, light training only 2 or 3 times per week, just enough to keep her from losing fitness.
Last night was a good meet for her to run, as the event she ran in was at 9:15pm and the temperature was in the lower 70’s (compared to the days high of 107 F where we live)… nice evening in the Seattle area, and she just ran nice and easy.
‘K’ has stopped sprinting until she recovers, as she says she has no power/strength, legs feel like ‘mush’, which is amplified immensely by warm weather. She is trying the 800m because she says she can just ‘jog’ and that it’s ‘easy’, doesn’t bring on the symptoms like sprinting does, and she gets the satisfaction of being able to still compete.
She is in lane #2, wearing red shorts/white shirt:
I wouldnt be surprised if it is cronic fatigue, heaps of kids over here get it every year. They get over it.
Usually the tough, I want this real bad kids.
Chronic fatigue syndrome will only be diagnosed if no cause for the fatigue can be found. With iron deficiency and mononucleosis two conditions that can cause fatigue are already present thus precluding a diagnosis of CFS.
Most parents are not like Rich, they just call the symptons growing pain or puberty.
She would have long been over feeling sick, probably threw up at training, next heavy head sweat.
The antibodies could be another of the bodiesway of defending itself, looking for a bug that isn’t there?
These are tough kids who work through the pain and don’t tell because they don’t want to stop. They just need downtime to recover.
I am no doctor.