I see you have high hrv numbers.
What does Joel’s book say about this? Does he say anywhere that having high HRV numbers can be a bad thing in the long term?
Haven’t finish the book - can’t answer that question. He does provide a graph that list hrv X Aerobic fitness X Type of athletes
For example:
hrv 90+ = Very high aerobic fitness = endurance athlete
hrv 60-70 = fair = strength power sports
I played around with it today my hrv was low 67.7.
Interesting… I’ve always had awful aerobic fitness. Growing up, I always came in last in every aerobic fitness test they every put us through. Even fat offensive lineman could beat me in a mile run in high school. It could be the training that I’m doing now, which is more bodybuilding/high rep stuff.
Glad to hear you’ve finally got your HRV set-up working, it took a while. Let me know what you think of the book when you finish it.
It would be great if you could take a very easy week or ten days to create a decent HRV baseline. This will help in the medium to longer term.
I’m fat/weak/slow right now - I was planning on doing 2-3 days of tempo and easy 10’s this week would this be a problem or would you recommend total rest? I am a little stressed from work and outside factors etc.
16 days until surgery, Tuesday, 6.25.13
HRV - 91.6, RHR - 62.6
Bulgarian SS 30X0 - 5x6 w/ 70lb DBs
Prone SL Leg Curl 3020 - 4x6, 40lbs
SL Leg Ext 20X0 - 4x10, 40lbs
Seated SL Leg Curl 10X0 - 3x8, 50lbs
Hip Abduction 2020 2 x 20
Speedcoach lv1
Quads - 65/55
Hamstrings - 48/34
Glutes - 55/45
Had to shift my training week back a day since I had to do some grueling workout outside yesterday. I’m going to do 7 EMS sessions before my surgery starting back with lv1 and progress to lv4. My pain tolerance has also gone up considerably lately.
15 days, Wednesday, 6.26.13
HRV - 87.4, 64.4
A1). Single Arm Braced DB Press 40X0 - 3x6. 40lbs, 50lbs, 60lbs x failed at 4
A2). Fat Grip Pullups 40X0 - 3x6
B1). Incline DB Press 4020 - 3x10, 40’s
B2). Lean Away Lateral Raise 2020 - 3x10, 15lb DB
C1). Scott Curl 1010 - 4x12
C2). Triceps ext machine 1010 - 3x12
D1). DB Shoulder ext rotation 5020 - 3x10
D2). Prone Wrist ext 1010 - 3x10
EMS active recovery on all muscle groups
Had an amber/orange reading today which means to have a lighter training day but decided to train through it.
I forgot to mention this, but remember that Kyle takes the reading seated, which should result in a lower heart rate and therefore a presumably a higher HRV score (lower heart rate generally means more recovered, higher HRV score means more recovered).
Once you stand up your heart rate generally increases by 10 to 15 beats per minute, thus Kyle’s score may seem impressively high. I don’t think this matters much, as it is how your score fluctuates over time that really seems to help.
What you say about speed power athletes scoring poorly is interesting, as my most talented guy, who is a total speed creature, tends to score very poorly.
I’m interested in who Joel Jamieson credits in his book, as he is certainly not one of the leading lights in the HRV movement himself. He may have a decent working knowledge, but I presume he borrows heavily from others.
Even though RB34 and I are using different brands of HRV, I believe we still have quite similar protocols. From what I understand, here are the differences between the two units:
Bioforce: recommends lying, 2min 30sec duration measurement, no controlled breathing
Ithlete: recommends standing, 60sec duration, requires controlled breathing.
For the first 4-5 months of HRV, I took every single one of the measurements from a standing measurement and most of the time they were in the 67-78 range. I switched to the lying because I found it to be more consistent. My RHR isn’t that low, and I felt like I noticed too much variance with the standing measurments because it took longer to get a signal.
Regarding what RB34 stated from Joel’s book about HRV scores and athlete type, I bet Tyrone could give us a good sample of HRV data from the sprinters he works with. I do know that he has a 10.85 sprinter who scores in the 80’s range from a standing position, and would probably jump up to the mid 90’s from a lying position. This example wouldn’t correlate to what Joel says in his book, but its important to realize that there are many other variables that affect running speed.
14 days, Thursday, 6.27.13
HRV - 88.1, RHR - 63.7
Bulgarian SS 30X0 - 4x6, 75’s
Prone SL Leg Curl 3020 - 3x6, 45
Hi Box Stepup 2011 - 4x10, 40’s
Speedcoach lv1
Quads - 65/55
Hamstrings - 45/37
Glutes - 60/45
I started refridgerating my EMS pads and they seem to stick better, especially the longer 100mmx50mm pads.
Hey RB, that sounds totally reasonable. I think if the exercise is low CNS stress you should be fine. It would only be an issue if you were doing some heavy duty speed and were moving pretty fast I think.
13 days, Friday, 6.28.13
HRV - 90.9, RHR - 61.8
A1). Military Press - 5x115lbs, 3x125lbs, 2x135lbs, 5x120lbs, 3x130lbs, 2x140lbs
A2). NG Chins 40X2 - 5x6
B1). Semi-Supinated Decline DB Press 4020 - 3x10, 40’s
B2). DB Shoulder Shrug 2011 - 3x12, 55’s
C1). Machine Scott Curl 1010 - 4x12
C2). Machine JM Press 1010 - 3x12
D1). DB shoulder ext rotation 5020 - 3x10
D2). Wrist ext 1020 - 3x10
12 days, Saturday, 6.29.13
HRV - 86.6, RHR - 64.2
Bulgarian SS - 60’s x 6, 70’s x 6, 80’s x 6, 90’s x 6
Prone SL Leg Curl 20X0 - 4x6, 50lbs
Leg Extensions 2020 - 4x10
Heaviest I’ve ever gone on bulgarian split squats with my thigh breaking parallel. Did not get a chance to do an EMS max strength session afterwards…
11 days, Sunday, 6.30.13
HRV - 93.5, RHR - 61.1
EMS active recovery.
10 days until surgery, Monday, 7.1.13
HRV - 93.1, RHR - 60.9
DB Rev. Lunge from deficity - 3x10, 40-60’s
SL Leg Press - 3x6, 150lbs
Prone SL Leg Curl 3010 - 3x6, 65lbs
SL Leg Extension 2020 - 4x10
EMS Max Strength: 4min of 3sec ON/17sec OFF and 4min of 5sec ON/25sec OFF
Quads - 65/55
Hamstrings - 45/35
Glutes - 58/44
9 Days, Tuesday, 7.2.13
HRV - 93.1, RHR - 60.9
A1). Military Press - 5x125, 3x130, 2x140, 5x125, 3x135, 2x145
A2). NG Chins 4012 - 6x5, 10lbs
B1). Semi-supinated Decline DB Press 4010 - 3x10
B2). DB SS 2020 - 3x10
C1). Scott Machine Curl 1010 - 3x12
C2). JM Machine Press 1010 - 3x12
D1). DB Shoulder ext - 2x10
D2). Wrist ext - 2x10
EMS active recovery - 20min all muscle groups
I had a conversation between Giovanni Ciriani, Derek Hansen, and Jimson Lee this week about a problem that I’ve been having with the 8sec contractions in the speedcoach program. During the 8sec maximal contraction w/ EMS, after 5 seconds into the contraction my muscles start to relax and the contraction gets weaker. I do not have this problem when doing the 3sec and 5sec contractions as I feel a very hard contraction throughout the entire duration. I typically have to raise the intensity up, but sometimes even this doesn’t change much. After speaking with these coaches, their explanation was that the muscle is probably getting fatigued too much. Their recommendations were to do more work in the 3-5 second range with EMS. This is what I will indeed start doing and it certainly won’t hurt me because it’s a lot more specific to my sport.
8 Days, Wednesday, 7.3.13
HRV - 95.5, RHR - 56.4
Bulgarian SS - 5x6, 75’s
Prone Bilateral LC 3020 - 5x6, worked up to 130lbs
SL Leg ext 2020 - 4x10
DB Hi Box Step-up - 3x10, 35’s
EMS MaxS - 4min 3sec ON/17sec OFF, 4min 5sec ON/25sec OFF
Quads - 65/55
Hamstrings - 47/34
Glutes - 67/47
The bulgarian SS was super easy today, must be getting stronger. I’m also going to note that it is time to replace the pads on my new EMS unit, I believe they lasted a little over a month.
7 Days, Thursday, 7.4.13
HRV - 92.0, RHR - 58.6
A1). Seated Military Press - 5x125, 3x135, 2x145, 5x130, 3x140, 2x150
A2). NG Chin 4012 - 5x6, BW+10lbs
B1). Decline Hammer press - 3x8
B2). DB SS - 3x10
One week out from surgery. I probably won’t have time to do EMS active recovery today because of the national holiday. Military Press wasn’t bad, I believe I’m getting close to my old personal best. I’ll have to look back in my old logs, but I think my old 1RM was 165lbs.
6 Days, Friday, 7.5.13
HRV - 92.6, RHR - 62.7
Bulgarian SS - 65’s x 6, 75’s x 6, 85’s x 6, 95’s x 6
Prone DBL Leg LC - worked up to 130lbs x 5 over 5 sets
-Prone SL LC - 1x failure each side
SL Leg ext 2010 - 4x10
5 Days, 7.6.13
HRV - 76.2, RHR - 71.1, ORANGE reading
EMS MaxS - 4min 3sec on/17sec off, 4min 5sec on/25sec off
Quads - 67/57, used cross-linked wiring pattern
Hamstrings - 44/37
Glutes - 60/45, used cross-linked wiring pattern but then switched to parallel.
I wasn’t able to do EMS MaxS on Friday because I got home too late after fooling around at Barton Springs in Austin. The heavy Bulgarian SS felt easier than I thought surprisingly, I will aim for 100lb DB’s in each hand this final week before surgery. I wound up doing the EMS MaxS session on Saturday instead and started experimenting with the cross-linked wiring pattern that Charlie Francis recommended back in his day. I did “feel/notice” more force being produced by the quadricep muscles but not as much muscle tension as the usual parallel wiring pattern. When I tried the crosslinked wiring pattern on the glutes it didn’t quite work right probably because of the way I place the pads. There was a lot more fluttering and unequal contraction as opposed to the parallel contraction. I’ll also have to note that I still can’t seem to figure out a way to get the glutes to contract without the painful “pins and needles” sensation during the contractions which doesn’t happen when I stimulate the quads and hamstrings. I’m going to continue experimenting with ways to eliminate this sensation and obtain a normal feeling contraction.
I did notice a difference in doing EMS on a separate day from voluntary strength work. I noticed that my muscles weren’t really all that fatigued like usual by doing it on the same day as voluntary work. I even did a couple of longer 8 second contractions and noticed that the muscles were firing during the entire duration, which has been a problem when I do EMS on the same day as voluntary strength training.
My HRV reading dropped 16 points on Saturday, could have been to a variety of factors. I woke up today and it was back up to 92…
I would try replacing your pads or make sure you use alcohol before sicking the pads and then make sure it’s dry … When the pads are not in full contact with the skin it feel like pins and needles. It sounds like you are not getting a full pick up from where you placed your pads.
I tried this out and did get some relief but the stinging sensation is still there just a little bit. Are you recommending putting alcohol on the pads, dry them, and then stick them on the skin? I’ve already been using contact gel and it helps as well, what are your thoughts on it compared to alcohol?
3 Days, 7.8.13
HRV - 91, RHR - 64
Bulgarian SS - 4x6, 80’s
Prone Leg Curl - 3x6, worked up to 135lbs
-Prone SL Leg Curl - 1x to failure
SL Leg Extension - 4x10, 60lbs
EMS MaxS: 4min of 3sec ON/20sec OFF, 4min of 6sec ON/35sec OFF
Quads (returned to normal parallel pattern) - 67/57
Hamstrings - 50/37
Glutes (used two 90x50mm large pads instead of four 50x50 small pads - 75/65
I’m still experimenting with the troublesome glute pad placement. I was able to complete the session with less painful contractions and even raise the mA up but am not sure if it’s more beneficial than using the smaller pads. I might stick with it…
2 Days, 7.9.13
HRV - 89.7, RHR - 63.7
A1). Seated Military Press - 5x130, 3x140, 2x150, 5x135, 3x145, 2x155
A2). Neutral Grip Chin-up - 6x5, BW+20lbs
-limited on time, had to leave
EMS MaxS: Speedcoach lv3 settings
Glutes only, used all 8 small pads - 53/43 with “Upper Leg” setting, 68/58 for “Lower Leg” setting
-did active recovery after this on quads
Problem is solved… No pins and needles sensation anymore for the glute muscles. I spoke with a Globus user who also experiences the same discomfort I do and he recommended that I use a different muscle group setting and using the “Lower Leg” setting rather than the “Glutes” setting led to a much better contraction. If anyone is confused for what I’m talking about, the pins and needles sensation that I’ve been talking about in this log has been bothering me for a while. The problem is now solved because I used a different “pulse width” parameter. The recommended “glute” setting for maximum strength work doesn’t have enough pulse width waveform duration, probably because I have more muscle/fat mass than the average person does back there. The solution to this problem is to use a different muscle group setting in the unit that requires a greater pulse width duration. In the Globus unit, you could use “upper leg” or “lower leg” settings instead of “gluteus” in order to attain more pulse width.
Charlie Francis mentioned over and over how important the muscles at the hip joint are in sports, it’s about time I finally found a way to successfully stimulate this muscle group via EMS!