Complex training

From the table in the Verkhoshansky link I gave you above (I’m leaving out the plyos that Charlie recommended AGAINST in Edmonton), Dr. Verkhoshansky lists:

Squats 2X2 @80-85% 3-4 min rest
set break 3-5 min
box squats (explosive) 16-24-32kg (2-3)X(4-6) rec 3-4 min

The key for doing this is that the second workout MUST be explosive to get the intended effect.

Also note that Dr. Verkhoshansky says that this workout should be the first in a day (so it would not be weights after speed in CFTS) and the rest after this workout should be at least 4 hours.

I might (and have) done this very workout as a replacement for speed, but not in addition to speed (though I suppose you could do tempo 4 hours later).

thank you for the info. thats my plan, to use it as a speed replacement when i dont have the facilities. i read in that first article you gave me that the recommended rest varies a bunch, and i do know that everyone is different, so i could do something easy to start out like 3x3 squat with 5 box jumps right after, then rest 5’ and go from there based on how my bdy feels during and after and the days after the workout. i’m still young so i can still experiment a bit!

See the Verkhoshansky link I gave you. The professor has a graph showing maximum jumping height vs rest period. The optimal seems to be 3 min rest after squats or 5 min rest after depth jumps. It depends on what you do for the stimulus exercise, but you don’t go to the second exercise immediately. Wait a few minutes.

You guys making this topic so difficult…

I think most here are talking about what I refer as contrast training. You are looking for a potentiation effect. If so, the potentiating load should be done immediately before, within 1-3 minutes, and the two loads (light and heavy) should be alternated set for set with near full recovery between each ‘superset’. If you are doing several sets of heavy load work followed by rest and then several sets of explosive work (or vice versa) you are doing complex training, but you are receiving little, if any, potentiation effect. You are simply doing concurrent training.

i’d like it to be simple, just everywhere i’ve read/learned about it from makes it seem pretty complicated

what are your thoughts on it? if its simple, id love to hear it

Just an idea. How about focusing your speed related drills more on start/early accel during the winter. I was thinking drills such as push up starts or resisted runs(tire/sled/isorobic) which could be done within 20 metres. Then when the weather improves you can focus on transition to max v and then speed endurance.

Just spitballing here.

It’s not complicated; its very simple. It can be very demanding in terms of CNS impact, but at this time in your training year it shouldn’t be a problem.

my big meets are in february so the weather never really improves by then :confused:

and i took most of the fall doing the push up starts and the summer doing resisted runs, though i did plan to do some short accels before the complex training

we’ll i meant in terms of how rb34 said that we were making it seem too complicated

i wasnt sure how to simplify it further than wanting to know why it works, and how i would structure a workout with it… so i made a thread!

Is the 20yd straightaway 20yds total or can you actually run a 20yd sprint on it?

It depends on what you’re looking to get out of it. Are you looking for the potentiation effect in order to increase short term training performance, or are you looking to train both strength and power synergistically, but are not necessarily interested in a short term potentiation effect during training? How the exercises are implemented in the workout, as well as the level of intensity, varies depending on what you’re doing.

My post didn’t mean to imply that I suggest such a way of training. If something similar Has to be used and without knowing the details, I would tend to try an Ascending type of session (and a Descending as a 2nd option within the week perhaps). What mortac8 has asked is crucial, regarding the running distance available. Thanks for the link by the way, which I haven’t been able to watch yet.

Ascending and descending worked well for me at times. Usually 4-6 weeks only. Ascend one day, descend the next.

its 40yds wall to wall with thin padding. from experience i can sprint about 20 yd without throwing on the brakes too hard

i doubt i would need to use this training too often, as my meet schedule is pretty heavy and many weeks have 2 meets, which is a good enough stimulus

i would use it just to add a high intensity day if the situation arose where i thought one would fit well, but i dont have the facilities available

im not sure what you mean by this… as in intensity levels?

Hell that’s pretty good. I would use that to your advantage over the many who have 0 hallway. For complexes… I might just complex some stuff in between sets of olympic lifts like 1x3 low box jumps or something similar.

I don’t do much of this stuff. It gives a stimulus level that you won’t get maybe any other way, but I little bit goes a long way. I read a research paper on resisted/assisted contrast on the track (which is analogous to the Verkhoshansky “stimulus” method) last year that implies that the way it works is actually analogous to “shock training” in the Verkhoshansky terminology: The explosive part of the training causes muscle damage in the fibers causing eccentric contractions, and when the muscle fibers recover from the stimulus, both stride length and stretch-shortening velocity are enhanced. But this also means that you only get a positive training effect from the unexpected stimulus: Once your body gets used to it and it doesn’t knock down your CNS so much, it doesn’t work any more.

I’ve noticed that I only get an effect from this kind of training from doing it twice. Also, you need to follow this type of training with 1-2 weeks of recovery (don’t expect positive results on the track immediately–expect the opposite, in fact) with some weeks of regular training to accumulate the gains.

I have a week in the middle of phase 1 where I do:

2X3 squats @80-85%
3 min rest
2 sets of explosive box squats with 50 pounds of BB

I have a week early in phase 2 where I do (on opposite weekends):

2X40m accel from 3pt @100%, 5% uphill
10 min rest
2X30m flying 5% downhill

That’s all I do in a whole training year, as I don’t think any more yields a positive risk/reward.