Coffee

Your opinion. However, I’ll take a guy who dedicates a great portion of his life to nutrition issues over your voodoo opinion.

The point at which it actually becomes a benefit is the point at which it is banned.

Believe personal attacks are also against the rules, thanks though, Mom.

If you want to be ubsurdly literal, then have at it. Fact is, I gave you other sources, and there are many more you can easily google search for.

Fact of the matter is, using a stimulant before a workout will necessitate the need for a longer recovery than if no stimulant were used. If you don’t believe this has anything to do with the adrenals, then to each his own.

Well that pretty much throws your whole caffeine prevents parkinson’s disease and whatever else you mentioned out the window. If it did such a good job, these diseases wouldn’t be so prevalent considering they are drank so widespreadly.

Where is soda on that list? Or alcohol? I bet it is pretty high. So I’m sure they’re healthy choices as well. Fact of the matter is, humans were meant to drink one substance after infancy, water.

What do the majority of people do when they go to the gym? Machines? No warm-up? Conversate? But since this is what the majority does, it must be correct, right? Or how bout how does the typical American eat…Fast food, processed foods, junk food, soda, artificial flavoring, etc. etc. etc. But Americans are doing alright aren’t they, we don’t just happen to be the wealthiest country in the world yet have numerous countries out do us with life expectancy, do we? Point being, generally do the opposite of what the majority does and you’ll get results, whether it is health related or performance related.

Well let’s consider that. Someone who has never drank caffeine, the first time they drink a decent quantity is likely to experience jitters, anxiousness, possible sweating, heart palpation, possible nausea, etc. I’m sure this means it is something your body is happy you put into it. Obviously, all these side effects are promoting health and fighting disease.

My opinion isn’t voodoo. This guy has made up a medical problem without any real basis, nor is he trained in medicine (nor are his opinions supported by medicine). Yeah, a lot of people “dedicate” a great portion of their lives to a lot of things–doesn’t mean their ideas are any less stupid. I guess HIT is awesome for becoming a great athlete as well?

The point at which it actually becomes a benefit is the point at which it is banned.
No, it isn’t. You really must be kidding yourself here.

Believe personal attacks are also against the rules, thanks though, Mom.
I am not making personal attacks. I am saying that you are dumb. Based on your posts, that would fall in like with that thought.

If you want to be ubsurdly literal, then have at it. Fact is, I gave you other sources, and there are many more you can easily google search for.
No. Look, you said green vegetables/plants have polyphenols just like tea. That is an absurd statement to believe that simple green vegetables have polyphenols at approximate levels levels as tea. It is no different than me saying green beans or broccoli are caffeinated because tea also contains caffeine.

Fact of the matter is, using a stimulant before a workout will necessitate the need for a longer recovery than if no stimulant were used.
Greater performances within the workout will also be attained. Post workout soreness is actually helped by caffeine. It is not as simple as saying stimulant = more recovery needed.

If you don’t believe this has anything to do with the adrenals, then to each his own.
That wasn’t what was said. You are supporting a voodoo diagnosis not supported by scientific literature and saying it is caused by caffeine.

Well that pretty much throws your whole caffeine prevents parkinson’s disease and whatever else you mentioned out the window. If it did such a good job, these diseases wouldn’t be so prevalent considering they are drank so widespreadly.
… like in Japan? and China? I hope you’re kidding on this one.

Where is soda on that list? Or alcohol? I bet it is pretty high. So I’m sure they’re healthy choices as well. Fact of the matter is, humans were meant to drink one substance after infancy, water.
Let me guess, humans were also supposed to eat raw meat and have no dairy, correct? Again, love the voodoo science and simply making shit up.

What do the majority of people do when they go to the gym? Machines? No warm-up? Conversate? But since this is what the majority does, it must be correct, right? Or how bout how does the typical American eat…Fast food, processed foods, junk food, soda, artificial flavoring, etc. etc. etc. But Americans are doing alright aren’t they, we don’t just happen to be the wealthiest country in the world yet have numerous countries out do us with life expectancy, do we? Point being, generally do the opposite of what the majority does and you’ll get results, whether it is health related or performance related.
Your point is a moot one because we are not the wealthiest per capita (which would be important if you want to consider average lifespan versus average wealth) and the culture with the greatest tea consumption also has the longest average life span (Japan).

Well let’s consider that. Someone who has never drank caffeine, the first time they drink a decent quantity
What are you saying is a “decent” quantity? A cup of white tea or a triple expresso or what?

is likely to experience jitters, anxiousness, possible sweating, heart palpation, possible nausea, etc.
Depends on amount. That can happen to you with a numerous amount of things if consumed in inappropriate quantities.

I’m sure this means it is something your body is happy you put into it.
You can die from drinking too much water.

Obviously, all these side effects are promoting health and fighting disease.

Glad your non convincing post is over.

You guys are crazy. It’s coffee. Give it a shot and if you don’t like it, stop. This is like arguing whether you should go to the bathroom or not.

Thank you, they have too much time on there hands.:slight_smile:

Just a couple points for Davan, as I agree most of this is becoming ridiculous.

Humans are the only species who consume dairy post-infancy, and it’s from other animals. 70% of adults are lactose intolerant. You decide whether we are supposed to consume dairy. I don’t really care if you think we do or not. Just stating facts.

The first time you put water in your body nobody on earth got jitters, sweated, anxiousness, etc. My reference pertained to coffee (such as one’s first cup) not tea. Typically, levels of caffeine in tea are very low (compared to coffee.) Original post was about coffee anyways. No food that the human body evolved consuming causes jitters, anxiousness, etc. In my voodoo opinion foods that never cause these symptoms, are what should be consumed.

Sources of polyphenols just from wikipedia, I tried looking around for actual counts just for kicks but couldn’t find it. I agree, more than likely, you need to consume more vegetables/other sources than you would from a cup of tea:

“The main source of polyphenol antioxidants is nutritional, since they are found in a wide array of phytonutrient-bearing foods. For example, most legumes; fruits such as apples, blackberries, blueberries, cantaloupe, cherries, cranberries, grapes, pears, plums, raspberries, and strawberries; and vegetables such as broccoli, cabbage, celery, onion and parsley are rich in polyphenol antioxidants. Red wine, chocolate, green tea, olive oil, bee pollen and many grains are alternative sources.”

Lastly, there is plenty of research that has been done in regards to paleontological eating. Metabolic typing being one example. Not interested in your opinion of it, we already know it’s voodoo made up shit anyways. Just stating research has been done.

Good talk, cya out there.

What do you think the most selected for gene in humans has been the last few thousand years or so?

The first time you put water in your body nobody on earth got jitters, sweated, anxiousness, etc. My reference pertained to coffee (such as one’s first cup) not tea. Typically, levels of caffeine in tea are very low (compared to coffee.) Original post was about coffee anyways. No food that the human body evolved consuming causes jitters, anxiousness, etc. In my voodoo opinion foods that never cause these symptoms, are what should be consumed.
Inappropriate concentrations of anything will cause issues. Caffeine on its own in moderate amounts (simply classifying all coffee as the same doesn’t work since European coffee differs dramatically from what you will get in the States, let alone cafe to cafe) will not cause problems.

Sources of polyphenols just from wikipedia, I tried looking around for actual counts just for kicks but couldn’t find it. I agree, more than likely, you need to consume more vegetables/other sources than you would from a cup of tea
Wikipedia knows all.

Lastly, there is plenty of research that has been done in regards to paleontological eating. Metabolic typing being one example. Not interested in your opinion of it, we already know it’s voodoo made up shit anyways. Just stating research has been done.
It’s funny that people who talk about what “paleotonlogical” eating is seemed to have never actually studied evolutionary genetics or anthropology in general and never cite evidence, just their logical reasoning, for knowing what people did thousands of years ago (they also love to never cite which region since the indigenous people of North America had dramatically different diets from those in Africa, as with the rest of the world!). I ran some of these thoughts by one of the leaders in the theories on human evolution last year and he simply laughed at most of these thoughts, particularly the ones on dairy and raw meat. Point is, people make false claims and presumptions on incorrect information. If I tell you the gene necessary for digestion of dairy foods is highly selected for, then what? Does that mean that humans are evolved to eat dairy? Better yet, even if we are not, are we evolved to do a wide number of things–like train for sports performance or read? If I tell you one of the biggest markers in the transition from homo erectus to homo sapiens was cooking food, then what?

So if the research exists, post it. I’m sure it is a great advancement in science and should be easy to find.

I am also curious where you got the “70% of adults are lactose intolerant” number from?

EDIT: Found the source on that data… interesting you don’t also mention that most people can consume dairy to a degree (intolerance is a matter of degree in this case, not all or nothing) without issue… which your same source mentions.

Why would anyone go against coffee ?! i bet those same ppl only eat carrots and shit because its good for them.

I drink coffee and red bulls all the time before training and I love what its doing to my performance.

“coffee isnt good for you”

sprinting is by no means good for you either, sitting on the computer isnt good for you, heating food in the microwave isnt good for you, and wearing a T shirt in the sun isnt good for you.

and thats assuming ur right… the body can protect itself from coffee overdoses… it will shut down receptors… you are not going to die because of your caffeine consumption.

if you have HIGH BP u might want to be carful just like if u have diabetes u might wanna be carful with the candy.

Caffeine is not illegal in the NCAA- this is from the banned list:

“for caffeine—if the concentration in urine exceeds 15
micrograms/ml.”

thats all

ill go have my coffee now, enjoy ur carrots

Haha. What exactly is it doing to your performance then? Are the increases not dieing out as your body adapts to increased caffeine levles??

Are you sure coffee is a stimulant?

I have googled cocamine, but have found very little real life information on it. I found a forum where it was found in a supplement combined with various stimulants including caffeine and hoodia. Mostly it was just stuff relating to chemical compounds etc, that means very little to me. If somebody could give me a little more applicable information or pass on their experiences using it I would appreciate it.

It contains caffeine which is a stimulant no??

We need to watch the substances being mentioned here lads - rules are rules

But the effect on the body varies and may be a PNS activitator instead

PNS?? Parasympathetic nervous system? Is that right? Hw is that different to a stimulant?

Yes, Parasympathetic Nervous System
Look at the effects of PNS activation

oh no… carrots are actually quite starchy… tut tut :rolleyes: l o l

A cup or two of coffee is not going to cause a significant increase in cortisol in an individual. As my bio professor was fond of saying, dosage makes the poison.

Also, I agree with davan that its outrageous how many people try to justify their claims by making things up about how human evolutionary biology took place. That is an incredibly complex field and to think people who have absolutely no experience with it could make the conclusions that they do is almost beyond belief. I don’t study astrophysics, but I could just have the arrogance to pretend I understand it. Maybe I should just make up conclusions about how the universe works to support my views! Did I tell you guys about how the sun obviously rotates around the earth…

http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=1019
Lots of reviews to read also.
Great stuff and very cheap. It contains a ton of amino acids. All natural. No sugar
Tastes like chocolate without sugar. Your energy will be through the roof and IT will help with overall wellbeing.

Introduction

Chocamine is a proprietary cocoa extract meant to provide the stimulation and health benefits of chocolate without any of the unnecessary, potentially unhealthy ingredients (such as sugar and fat). It contains numerous constituents, including methylxanthines (theobromine, caffeine, and theophylline), biogenic amines (phenylethylamine, tyramine, and according to one source, synephrine), amino acids (phenylalanine, tryptophan, tyrosine, others), minerals (with a high content of magnesium), numerous beneficial antioxidants, and possibly some non-psychoactive cannabanoid-related compounds. The combination of these multiple ingredients produces a unique effect. Promotional literature makes many positive claims about Chocamine, including increased energy, appetite suppression, increased lipolysis (fat burning), improved mood, improved concentration, increased alertness, improved physical performance, aphrodisiac properties, and health benefits. This article will examine the properties of some of the known constituents of Chocamine.

Methylxanthines

The methylxanthines are a group of compounds that include caffeine and some related stimulants. Chocamine contains methylxanthines such as theobromine, caffeine, and theophylline. Each gram of Chocamine contains 120 mg theobromine and 80 mg caffeine.

Caffeine is one of the most well-known stimulants, and functions primarily via antagonism of adenosine receptors. The properties of acute caffeine administration to humans include increased exercise performance, appetite suppression, increased rate of lipolysis, increased alertness, and reduced fatigue. Preliminary evidence suggests that regular consumption of small amounts of caffeine may also have neuroprotective and anticarcinogenic properties. On the other hand, caffeine is best avoided in those with high blood pressure and those prone to anxiety.

Theobromine is similar in both structure and function to caffeine, but it has a longer half-life, which may be one of the reasons chocamine has the reputation of being a “long-lasting stimulant.” Theobromine also has a relative potency a few orders of magnitude lower than caffeine, but the amount in Chocamine (assuming a gram or more is taken) is still enough to have a psychoactive effect.

Theophylline is one of the most commonly used asthma medications due to its bronchodilating properties, and phosphodiesterase inhibition seems to play a relatively larger role in its pharmacologic activity compared to caffeine. Theophylline is also quite lipolytic, and in vitro studies indicate that it is more lipolytic than caffeine in equivalent concentrations, but it is unknown whether or not the amount in Chocamine is enough to have a significant effect.

Biogenic amines

Biogenic amines are neurotransmitter-related compounds such as synephrine, tyramine, octopamine, and phenylethylamine; these compounds are also commonly referred to as “false neurotransmitters,” but the recent discovery of a specific receptor for these compounds in humans may have made this term obsolete. Nevertheless, they have many known actions in humans related to their effects on conventional receptors. Chocamine contains both phenylethylamine (PEA) and tyramine. One website indicates that it also contains synephrine, but I have been unable to confirm this as of yet.

PEA is a naturally occuring compound that behaves as a stimulant in the brain, with effects similar to those of amphetamine. However, oral bioavailability of PEA is very low, and there is not strong support for the contention that oral administration could yield a psychoactive effect, as many studies have come out negative. Some individuals may be particularly sensitive to the effects of oral PEA. Also, administration with an inhibitor of MAO-B renders PEA orally bioavailable.

Tyramine is another biogenic amine found in Chocamine. Tyramine is also found in relatively high concentrations in some foods such as aged cheese and wine. In insects, tyramine plays a similar role as a neurotransmitter to the role that epinephrine plays in mammals. In humans, tyramine can cause a release of norepinephrine. Tyramine is orally bioavailable, but unless an MAO inhibitor is being taken, large doses are required to exert an effect. It is unlikely that Chocamine contains a high enough amount of tyramine to have a significant effect, but it is possible that the tyramine content offers a mild contribution in terms of appetite suppression and lipolysis.

Synephrine is another related compound (a metabolite of tyramine), and it is an alpha(1) agonist. Synephrine has a higher oral bioavailability than most of the other trace amines. Because of its alpha(1) agonist properties, synephrine may be effective at decreasing appetite and promoting lipolysis, and it was found to be an effective therapy in an animal model of depression.

Amino acids

Chocamine contains amino acids such as phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan, all of which may have antidepressant effects, and both phenylalanine and tyrosine have stimulant effects. Although the area hasn’t been explored much, research indicates that these amino acids may have additive antidepressant effects.

Tryptophan is the amino acid precursor to serotonin (5-HT), with 5-HTP as the intermediary. Many clinical studies suggest that tryptophan is an effective antidepressant, although it is not as reliably effective as 5-HTP. This is possibly due to the fact that there are more mechanisms that inhibit tryptophan transport across the blood brain barrier and conversion to serotonin. On top of this, it is unlikely that the amounts present in Chocamine are large enough to cause a significant change in brain serotonin status. Either way, the presence of this amino acid can be considered a possible benefit, but for a more reliable serotonergic antidepressant, 5-HTP is recommended. Tryptophan is yet another compound in chocamine that may contribute to appetite suppression.

Tyrosine is the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine (DA). In humans, tyrosine supplementation leads to increased dopamine and norepinephrine levels in the brain without competitive inhibition of other amino acids. In turn, this may lead to the antidepressant, stimulant, and appetite suppressant effects of tyrosine observed in some studies.

Phenylalanine is the precursor to PEA. It is also a precursor to tyrosine, and is active in smaller doses. Unlike PEA itself, oral supplementation with phenylalanine may increase levels of PEA in the brain, although the literature is contradictory on this point. One trial indicated that L-phenylalanine had an antidepressant effect, but it was an open trial. As is the case with PEA, L-phenylalanine is also an effective antidepressant when coadministered with an MAO-B inhibitor.

Minerals

Chocamine is reported to be rich in both magnesium and copper. There is generally no need for extra copper, although zinc, chromium, and vitamin C can all inhibit copper absorption to an extent. However, extra magnesium is generally beneficial. Increased magnesium intake has been associated with decreased risk of various cardiovascular disease states, and is also beneficial for the treatment of some conditions (such as migraine headaches). Other minerals found in chocolate, and presumably also present in Chocamine, are calcium and potassium.

Phytonutrients

Cocoa contains both plant sterols and fiber, both of which are beneficial to cardiovascular health, but the sterol content is low (and probably even lower when the fat is removed), and the fiber is lost with processing. However, cocoa contains high quantities of flavanoids (a class of polyphenols), including proanthocyanidins and the flavan-3-ols catechen and epicatechin, and according to the promotional literature, Chocamine is high in these compounds (and this is undoubtedly the case, since they are quite easy to extract). The content and makeup of these phytonutrients in chocolate is similar to that in apples (it is higher on a per weight basis, but less on a per calorie basis). Chocolate has been found to increase the content of these flavan-3-ols and proanthocyanidins in the bloodstream in humans. Other studies indicate that the antioxidant capacity of chocolate is comparable with that of garlic, blueberries, and strawberries. In three studies, ingestion of cocoa products was found to decrease LDL oxidation. Although well-designed epidemiological studies have not been done, studies have found cardiovascular disease reduction from other foods high in these compounds. It has also been suggested that chocolate/cocoa may share the anti-carcinogenic properties of foods with similar phytonutrients.

Conclusions

Chocamine contains many beneficial ingredients, especially if one is looking for CNS stimulation and appetite suppression. The effects could be compared to those of amphetamine, but not as potent or euphoric. Although it is likely that only 5 or 6 of the compounds in Chocamine are found in sufficient quantity to exert an effect, the combination of the many ingredients together will offer many subtleties and make for a rather unique supplement. This is a supplement that should be definitely avoided by those prone to anxiety attacks or with cardiovascular conditions because of the stimulating effects. Like other stimulants, it shouldn’t be used before bed, and caution is strongly advised when combining with other stimulants. Recommended dosage is 1 gram 1-3 times daily (if in doubt, start low and move up). Although Chocamine undoubtedly is quite effective on it’s own, the following supplements may have additive benefits when used at the same time.

that would be good to take on race days, or you can just take some caffeine.