CNS, What is it

couldnt open, sorry man. Another link perhaps?

Elite athletes develop buffering capabilities that novices do not have. Therefore, they can tolerate higher levels of LA because the hydrogen ions coming from ATP and Lactic Acid are buffered by bicarbonate and NAD.

NAD+ can only accept H+ ions if oxygen is present, so if you are taking a rest period or glycolysis is extremely slow, NAD+ will accept a lot of the H+ ions and get rid of them via the electron transport chain.

If oxygen is not present, or if glycolysis is moving at a very fast rate, pyruvic acid will accept the H+ ions forming LA.

Lactic acid can then dissociate into lactate and H+ ions and only the ions that were not removed by dissociation into the blood stick around to cause the impairement of muscle contraction.

Have a look at the thread “WHAT IS CNS FATIGUE really?” under … CharlieFrancis.com > Expert Discussion > Advanced Sports Sciences

Maybe then you can explain it in your own words …

So what are you saying then?

Training optimally one should never get sore after training ?

hmmm, it seems its a locked, “advanced sports sciences” that is. Not sure why that is? :confused: its been locked from my prying eyes for ages. Didnt think anything was actually in there, thought it was a, to be comming soon thing?
Any ideas what to do to unlock?

Sorry mate no idea

i blieve training at any think than ones maximum (velocity, load, effort) will create low grade inflamation this is also tied to poor biomechanics, ie a person who gets up form a bench press and “feels” its in his shoulder, if your doing this your not benching properly, the sequence of muscle contractions is incorrect or biomechanics is incorrect. now im not gunna say your never gunna get sore but i have yte to expereience it training with loads that most people would say is excessive or atleast not when all the proper factors were in play.

I think I hear what you’re saying … but changes in the loading - tempo, reps, density, intensity etc. can all induce soreness.

No?

well for me the only tempo is maximum so each concentric rep is performed at the highest balistic speed, that also goes for intensity if your not training at atleast 97% of your maximum then it didnt account for shit. so say im doing balistic reps on the bench press with say 225. if my best power output measured with a tendo unit is 2000watts (just an example) then i must be within 97% of that or it didnt count. with what i am doing the workouts are usually never done more than one time because i train movements and not muscles i can use a lot of different methods to achieve the same goal but since they are not exactly the same they have the effect of continued adaptability on the system. in my experience changes in the workout do not factor into soreness.

It has not yet been proven that inflammation accompanies DOMS.

Malm C, Sjodin TL, Sjoberg B, Lenkei R, Renstrom P, Lundberg IE, Ekblom B. Leukocytes, cytokines, growth factors and hormones in human skeletal muscle and blood after uphill or downhill running. J Physiol. 2004 May 1;556(Pt 3):983-1000. Epub 2004 Feb 06, abstract. From the abstract: “Eccentric physical exercise (downhill running) did not result in skeletal muscle inflammation 48 h post exercise, despite DOMS and increased CK.” Inflammation is the hallmark of tissue damage, so this evidence tends to suggest that muscles are not damaged by hard, unfamiliar exercise. Return to text.

Back to the thread topic, a basic understanding of CNS can be found on a million websites…do you have any specific questions bold?

Thats the bit I have a hard time comphrehending

basically if your training hard enough the physiological and biological processes will come into play to effectivly combat sorness. these processes are only instituted at their fullest when a individual trains at or very near their maximum.

Hmm… but what about the ones that feel fatigue and soreness after achieving personal records or world records, and for many days afterwards? Can we honestly say that they have not gone hard enough to start their own physiological and biological processes? Perhaps it’s the other way around; that they have gone beyond their capacity for short time recovery – which is, in a way, what we are aiming for: Not to give too much value to just being able to handle intensity at increasingly higher volumes, but to be able to increase intensity at ever new levels, regardless of volume.

It’s so much easier to build work capacity; but being able to increase intensity (= performance) is a totally different animal in this respect. Moreover, the higher the level, the trickier it becomes, because recovery becomes a real issue… training hard enough is almost never a problem for such athletes.

wow, didnt this tread become sidtracked??
Specific Q. is basically basically done, CNS is the brain and down along the spinal collum.
Specific Q. 2. One gets fatigued yet muscles are better and just feels “down” is CNS fatigue. So, can we increase the recovery of the CNS. Could it be Allignment issues, ie, high stress has caused muscles to fatigue and the spine Falls out of allignment causing Apparent fatigue?? Is it more a bad chemical equation in the CNS causing the nerves to fire slowly? IF so, perhaps Diet or Herbs or something can quicken the Chemical balance along the CNS to normal levels?

Bold, I am not sure all of the biochemical interactions of fatigue have been discovered, let alone proven. There is a definate coorelation between nutrition and the function of the body as a whole. Since the nervous system is one one system of the body, all other systems of the body have a play it what it does.

Great performance has only one secret: That no ONE thing will turn someone into a champion. There are many many variables at play. WR times or PR’s are what happen when everything is going great.

Perhaps one of the most downplayed recovery factors for the CNS is the role that sleep plays in the refreshing of it. Miss a couple of days of sleep and you will know what I mean. You begin to lose coordination at phenominal rates.

Here is an interesting question:

Miss a couple days of food…nothing happens to your performance…it might actually increase.

Miss a couple days of supplements…nothing happens.

Miss a couple days of sleep…definate decrease in coordination and motor abilities.

Miss a couple days of water…definate decrease in coordination and motor abilities…possibly death depending on climate.

I think you know what Im getting at. Lets see what we can dig up on sleep, water and their roles in the replenishment and recovery of the Nervous System as a whole.

NIce one, reasearch time.

Sorry - I can’t agree with that.

Not to be too picky about that post Velocegatto, but I think its more accurate to state that the athlete does not ‘experience’ deterioration in performance - I think the CNS is affected but to varying degrees.

I agree compleetly with your views on sleep, but I think that nutrition and supplments have immediate effects on the CNS, but the perceprtion of the athlete is not as dramatic.

This discussion is going down the tubes.
We’re getting sidetracked with the same tired answers and calls for more research. The difference between the time it take for performance to be repeated (sometimes 10 days or more) at the highest levels is NOT the same as muscular recovery time. This thread has been filled with people saying there’s no such thing in effect (James Colbert). What you CAN repeat over and over is where you are now, not where you want to go. I know that as well as anybody because I got stuck doing it myself.
I’m here to tell you there IS such a thing and you can take what I’m telling you of leave it. The people who leave it just won’t perform at their best in the sprints or anywhere where speed is the main componant.

charlie i never said ther was no effect, there is, and no you cant just go out and bench or sprint everyday at maximums or near maximums without having prerequisites in place. that was what my post about training to train was all about. if you train like you train your athletes you cant do it simply because you dont have the components in your system to allow for it. not that im questioning your system because obviously it produces results. but your right this discussion has gotten off track and my main point was that the CNS for the most part does not respond to stress like other bodily tissues. it doesnt get torn down and then need to be rebuilt back up, for the most part.