ESTI, not to highjack your thread (hope I’m not doing that) Just an obvservation from what I’ve seen many times is that more often than not hurdlers soar too high over hurdles because they take off too close the hurdle. Often they are not “up” tall enough (more of an issue with the men) to takeoff properly resulting in a blocking action rather than a cut step. I see that is an issue in not being active enough with the takeoff foot (I often equate the hurdle takeoff to a TJ takeoff due to the active nature of the step as well as avoiding any lowering of the hips at takeoff) and they plant the foot out or down rather than being quick/back with the takeoff-i.e. avoid casting it out and leaving it out-a quicker takeoff foot is pretty much always desirable. A more active foot plant generally results in better horizontal velocity, lower clearance and a further takeoff. Another issue is not leading, as we all know, with the knee results in a more vertical projection and horiz. velocity is not maintained.
No hi-jacking at all!
I thought the same thing. We did measurements and he’s 2.20 to hurdle and 1.50 away from it. It’s right at recommended levels from most hurdle sources. This was first thing Clemson had me analyze. By the way, do you have a Dropbox account? dropbox.com?
I do have drop box but I will have to search for the PW. I will actually go the other way then, unless he’s a mid 13 performer, 2.2 might be too far. I know different sources suggest varying to/td distances but a 14.00 guy will be closer to to 2.13/2/15 and a 13.50 guy will be about 2.20/2.21m. So if he’s, say, a mid 14 guy he might be too far out. Maybe he’s locking his lead leg in bent leg position causing too much lift-which would probably be difficult to do or maybe he’s allowing his hips to sink/not being active enough with the cut step thus too much blocking/braking is occurring?
Monday April 16 Relay checks and 10x100 tempo.
Tuesday April 17 Meet!
The temp at our school when we left was 60F, when we arrived at the school of the meet, it was 43F (1 hour north!)
The kids didn’t warm up at all. I am stuck doing stuff at the finish line and can’t get to the kids. After they saw their times and had our chat today about warm-up, I tihnk they get the point.
Both boys and girls won the meet. The highlight was my hurdler, running 39.45 and breaking the 39.6 school record. He ran the turn into the wind and hit hurdle #2, hurdle #3 was really bad as he landed off balance. We have set a goal of 37.4 by June 2. A mix of flight time reduction and meet races, I think he can get there.
This saturday we have a relay meet, against some better competition.
Currently in the county, my kids are #1 or #2 in every running event except the 100, 4x200 and 800. My 800 kids can run faster but doing the 4x800-400-800 gauntlet leaves them wiped for the last run of the day.
Next Tuesday is an easy meet and the hurdler is going after the 400 and 200 school records, set last year.
One of the indoor guys ran another 51.7 coming in to 300 at 36 with a wind on the turn. Next Tuesday he is going for a full out 800 to try to run 2:00.
Wednesday April 18
Tempo: 10x200 easy pace.
Thursday April 19
Cool temps (upper 40s/low 50s with drizzle rain)
I arrived at the track at 330 to find out there was a middle school track meet starting at 4pm. Since we have a 300m turf inside lane, we did our work on turf today while the meet was going.
My 200/400 types did 5x200 at selected goal paces. There is certainly better consistency and less booty lock on these runs now. One of my indoor 400m guys, G, ran 5x200 with 200m jog (slow, but still jogged), all in 26.
My hurdlers did 1/2 spacing (every 5 yds) drills for 8 hurdles working on individual technical issues. This was the first time we did this and it was amazing how the issues the guys have came out during this drill.
Friday April 20
Baton practice and relay step check for those running in Saturday’s invitational meet.
My boys 4x100 is using the entire acceleration zone. So far they have run 45.3 for four guys who run between 11.5-11.9. The next few weekends should be interesting as they will have some teams faster than us. I’m hoping to see them drop a nice 44 second time shortly. Not sure we can go 43 this year. Last year 44.1 was the last qualifying time for state finals. low 43s do well and 42s win.
Will post Saturday results later!
Saturday April 21
Temp was 40s/50s, cool, 15 mph wind (tail wind for the 100m)
This was a relay meet only, with the only individual race being 300mH.
The 4x800 guys did ok. Two guys struggle was lactic tolerance given the training all winter. They struggled last year as well coming from more mileage and volume. I think it’s an individual tolerance considering two seasons, two drastically different trainings, same results.
The distance medley took 3rd and set a school record. My sprint relays did poorly. The 4x1 dropped the 2nd-3rd exchange ,and the 4x2 had another botch but they finished the race. The shuttle hurdles was disaster. My best hurdler, F, started with the wrong foot out of the blocks (right foot back, but stepped left foot first??? ) then ended up getting DQ’d for running through a hurdle after severely clipping hurdle 7 with his trail leg toe.)
The boys sprint medley (4-2-2-4) won and set a school record. MY 400 times, G, and F, both ran 50s. then 10 minutes later, ran the 4x400 relay and again both ran in the 50s.
G had the lactic gauntlet today starting with a 1200, then 4x800, then 400, 400. Next week is less volume and looking for some sharpening.
In the 300mh, F, who ran 39.5 on Tuesday, was seeded #2. After his 110 mishap, he was ready to chase this kid down. He had lane 5, the other lane 4. He took off and never looked back, running 38.1, meet record, broke his own school record from Tuesday, and has one of the top times in the state, as last year, 37.8 won state finals in June. He has a lot more room for improvement as well, as the 3 hurdles on the turns are rough as he lands off balance.
We have set a goal of trying to make the IAAF World Junior Championship team in the 400mH. He has to run a 400mH time of 53.24, which will come during the summer club season. If he is low 37s he should have enough left, as he will be most likely in the 48s for 400 come end of May. This is a lofty goal but one I think he might be able to achieve. Our state had two local girls compete last summer in Paris, a 200m and 800m runner. One girl is in a school in our league, she ran 2:08 and 5:02 as a 10th grader. Indoors this year, ran 4:55!
My girls did better than expected. Our meet schedules are a bit out of their ability but they seem to do well, earning many top 6 finishes. The best part is I have only 2 senior sprints for both boys and girls.
Tuesday is a dual meet against a week team and Saturday is a regional format meet with very good competition for this area.
Tuesday April 24 Meet
Temp: mid 50s, very windy (cross-head wind for 100m sprinters)
We ran against a weaker school. We played with the line up on both boys and girls. Both boys and girls won.
for the boys, the 4x800 team was to run hard as possible (8:18 was result, season best), and then come back in the next event strong. I think there has been some mental let down after running an opening 4x800 and then dying at the end of the next race. 3 guys came back in the 800 open, G, ran 204 relay and 205 in open. The other two ran 205 in relay and 207, 209 in open. Usually they run over 210 in the second race. The 4th runner ran a 435 mile by himself the entire time. Overall, that was successful.
The next plan was to have the hurdler, F, go after the 400 and 200 records set last year. He went out too easy in teh opening 200 (in 24) and finished in 50.6 (last 100 had head wind). The record is 49.0. In the 200, he got out great and ran 22.7 missing the record (22.3). His 110H was 15.3 into the wind. He looked better with this hip height over the hurdles. He is still very raw considering his ability so far.
The girls saw some nice times into the wind as well.
This Saturday we will see much better teams for boys and girls. Hope all goes well as planned this weekend.
Thursday April 26
I dug into my library and looked up some info on the DDR relay tables. I did the tests and determined the steps for my boys and girls teams. It’s amazing how accurate they are. The timing of the pass is near dead on. I’m hoping to shave some time with these new faster passes this weekend in the 4x100.
I got to the track at 330 and found out a 7th and 8th grade track meet was to start at 4pm. The kids were warmed up at 330 and we did 4x200 at their selective paces. Last week was speed, this week I went with more intensive SE work.
F, the hurdler, did 4x200 in 27, 25, 26, 25, all with a 200m jog back recovery (back to line in 90 seconds approximately).
Could you explain how the tables work?
You have athletes do a 0-26m all out sprint and time it. Then time the last 25m of their 100. You match the incoming 25m time with the outgoing 26m time and it gives you a take off distance.
interesting, do you time using free lap, brower or something else?
Hand time worked fine.
It has been my observation that if you time high school athletes on the straight and lane 2 on the turn, the top six rankings can be dramatically different for the straight versus the turn. In other words, a ranking of 1,2,3,4,5,6 on the straight may be 2,5,3,1,4,6 on the turn, which is to say, some athletes can sprint well on the straight but can’t manage the turn. I have informally polled many high school coaches regarding their selection of the athletes for the relay, and most will select the four fastest 100 meter times. IMHO, this can overlook the ranking disparity in the example above. Two of the athletes have to run the turn and if #5 on the straight is #2 on the turn, what then?
The high school track season is rather short, and I like to get some data early in the season so I get a rough idea about leg assignments. (This is only preliminary and may change due to athlete development, injuries, grades, and other issues.) I use the 35 meter low hurdle marks for fly-in sprints on the straight and the turn. The markings are already there, and I don’t have to use a wheel to measure the turn. I use lane 2 because I prefer to accentuate the affects of the turn, but avoid the potential for stepping on a rail in practice. I used Brower for many years, but having switched to Freelap, I can leave lane 1 open for the distance coach. (I can also simultaneously measure both athletes and all the zones throughout the hand-off, which is not possible with photo beams due to multiple athletes breaking the beam).
I have also observed a disparity in the acceleration of some athletes when when an athlete is coming in versus no athlete coming in. I set up the timing equipment to measure their acceleration. Every other acceleration is done with an athlete coming in (no baton, just wait for the mark and get out) and then by themselves. I show them the numbers, and they can see for themselves that they are hesitating when someone is coming in. I let them know that they don’t need to hesitate, and we will make any needed adjustments with the steps.
To further encourage the outgoing leg to get out and the incoming leg to “run through” the exchange zone, I use exchange zone races. I divide the lane in half using flat soccer cones. The outgoing leg has to wait for the mark, and then it’s a full-on race to the end of the exchange zone (no baton). I measure these accelerations as well. The first few times, the incoming leg will often blow by the outgoing leg. After a few practices, the outgoing leg will make the mental adjustment need to get out, and their accelerations with an incoming leg will begin to match their accelerations with no incoming leg. I continue to time their accelerations when we add the baton pass.
As the season progresses and I gain confidence in the leg selection, on some speed days, I may have legs 1 and 3 do some speed work on the turn with a baton in their hand. I place the transmitters on the low hurdle marks and record the fly-in times just as I monitor the speed on the straight. I record the lane number as our lane assignments may change from practice to practice.
Best,
Christopher
What is your setup for the 0-26 meter? Are you timing a gun and smoke, first movement, or something else?
Best,
Christopher
I went from first movement, standing start. It was an experiment that worked perfectly for my 4 girls. The boys times weren’t on the table and I had to make some adjustments based on the table progressions. Considering I am a math teacher this was quite fun and interesting! Maybe DDR athletes who used this table had beam timed splits back in the 60s and 70s (book was written back then).
Overall, the boys time dropped 0.8 seconds Saturday off their previous season best.
Chris, I do like your idea of exchange zone games. I have felt some athletes don’t get out well. I think this will be fun to do in the next two weeks to get prepared for the bigger meets of the season. My kids don’t get enough races in the 100m through the season and I’ve found it hard to see nice drops in time. Most many run 3-5 races only. When I ran, I counted one year I ran 15 100m races in 12 week season, which may explain why for two years I opened at 11.4-11.7 and ended at 10.9/10.8. My kids opened at 11.9 and may break 11.4 if temps are warm. I say this because I think the only way the relay times will drop much will be mastering baton velocity.
I also think you are on to something with the turn times. Next year as part of my testing, I will include a lane 2 trial standing, and lane 2 trial from blocks.
Saturday, April 28
Temp: FREEEEEZZING!! meet started at about 39F, and topped around 48F around the middle of the meet. Wind was strong, but the track was in a bowl stadium and wind on the track was negligible.
The competition for most of our kids was very high. This was why we wanted to come to this meet. No one really knew of us cause we are from the other county, and most teams in our county are not as fast.
In the boys 4x800, we set a season PB by near 10 seconds, thanks to 2 teams pushing their paces. Almost every runner set a season best PB in their splits. We ran this time last year the second week in May. so we are about two weeks ahead of pace. Our goal is sub 8 minutes by June 2 at state finals. We ran 8:09. The next fastest team in our county is about 8:30.
In the 110H, F, ran rounds for the first time. He handled them well. He wont the final in 14.76 FAT and won by a lot. After the meet, a local Big Ten school approached us interested in him. He is a junior right now and is very promising future since he considers track his first main sport and not football or basketball. We have been working on the half spacing drills and it was very clear the difference in his flight times and hip heights over the hurdles. It’s not perfect but much improved. Using my 60 fps camera, previous flight times averaged approximately 0.40-0.45 seconds. This race was 0.30-0.36 seconds per hurdle.
He later ran the 300h. He has the fastest recorded 300H time in Michigan to date at 38.1ht. he ran out of rhythm and hit nearly every hurdle, running 39.1 coming in second to the kid he beat by a second last saturday.
In the 800, G, ran a tactically bad race and ran 2:00, a personal best in the open 800. He ran his last 100m in lane 4. He misunderstood my tactical instructions. He was to keep pace with a group of 3 runners and then kcik in the final 100. He tends to kick too soon and get passed. He just ran with the middle pack and kicked the last 100m! The winner, one of the ones he was supposed to chase, ran 1:56. Again, he won’t see this speed again until June 2 at state finals if we decide to let him run the open 800. He is ready to run sub 50 in the 400m, which usually is top 8 in Michigan. He has run high 50s this year in poor conditions. Hoping in the next two weeks, he has 3 chances to go after it. By May 12, we will have to decide what we will do. 2:00 is ok, but will get smoked at state finals. The top 8 last year ran under 1:55, with 2:01 being last place.
As mentioned above, the 4x100 ran a new season best, which I was very pleased.
Overall, a great meet for our kids and really pushed their comfort zones and opened their eyes as to how fast teams are compared to us.
They did have quite sophisticated equipment in the sixties. Have a look at this page on technology for measuring sprints from the Museum for Sports in Leipzig.
Very interesting! I don’t speak German, but wonder if this professor would know how the relay tiimes might have been taken. His name wasn’t one of the authors listed, but maybe he knows someone…
Monday April 30
pre-meet day, baton checks, 12 x 100 tempo
Tuesday Meet: 60F, no wind! Great conditions. This time of year last season, the kids were a bit loaded and did not perform well at all individually. The same happened Tuesday. With great weather, individually nothing to speak of. Relay times did improve for boys 4x1, 4x2, and the girls 4x2, 4x4. The boys 4x1 ran 44.5 with perfect exchanges that are dangerously close to disaster. We have definitely maxed out baton speed in the exchange zone. The girls have too, and on the last exchange, she had to slow down, and ran an average time. With a good exchange, they probably would have had another season best.
Wednesday: just to change it up, the short sprinters did 20 min jog easy and stretched, the 200/400 did 30 minutes.
Hurdlers did the 1/2 spacing drill.
Thursday: I had parent-conferences at the school I teach at (not where I coach) and could not make it. An assistant ran the practice. 4x200 with 2 min rest at 85-90%.
Friday: pre-meet, baton check. Saturday’s meet is relay style with all kinds of odd exchanges. One race has 8 people in it, boys and girls! It’s a fun meet but a headache for practice as there are so many odd exchanges.
Saturday: temp expected to be in high 60s. I’m out the door now at 7am. Will report back. Looking for 4x1, 4x2 and 4x4 times to improve today with good conditions and decent competition.
Saturday Meet results
We set 3 more school records. Boys Shuttle hurdles, Co Ed 1200-600-600-1200, and the girls 100-200-300-600.
The boys won the meet, our first invitational win in a long time. Last year we were runner up at this meet.
Some great performances even under heavy training load. I was very happy with the results given the conditions.
Monday May 7: Pre-meet
Tuesday: Last dual meet of the season. Boys and girls both have a chance for the league championship. If the girls win I believe it’s a tie, and the boys would win outright.
This saturday is our last weekend invitational meet, which is regional format (prelims, semis in 100, 110H/100H, 200), and the typical standard races.
For many this is the last hard week of the season. A few are going to train through regionals to prep for state finals. These kids are way out in front of their event and doing tapering over 3 weeks is not easy. The only draw back is a risk of time being placed in a slower heat at state finals.