Supplement company sued

A very interesting article.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6678859

23,

You were asking about Muscletech?

Yeh - “timely” would be the appropriate word !!
:smiley:

Now get back to the document!

The only supplement company I trust: http://www.ast-ss.com

AST produces Pro Hormones! I DO NOT trust AST. That is just my personal opinion though. It only takes a dust particle of a Prohormone in your protein for you to test positive (so I have heard. 716?) I wouldn’t support AST.

Agreed - avoid prohormone manufacturing companies.

In the equation of life, there exists the players of intent (of varying degrees of ethics) and accident. I trust AST’s ethics and intent. If the valid concern is that human error might cause contamination of a protein supplement, (through accident and not intent), that doesn’t negate the potential value in the information that they provide in their articles and Q and A’s. If such is the case, then don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Avoid their product if your mind is more settled in doing so, and if you have another product in mind that is good and chance of contamination is nil (whether accidental or intentional).

Journeyman,

are you an employee of AST? Bottomline, the company produces prohormones and there are other brands out there that don’t with products that match and often exceed those of AST.

Why take the chance?

This is the bottom line.
The risks are too great and there are many other extremely good repuatable companies out there who do not manufacture pro-h’s - so why take the chance?

Journeyman,

Do you work for AST? The company I work for used to distribute AST products. I am quite familiar with their products. For Amature athletes subject to testing, you cannot play around and hope that the ethics of a company that produces prohormones will keep the prohormones from getting into their protein. It would not be cost effective for any company to add prohormones to their protein without charging for them. We are talking about trace amounts that will cause an athlete to loose everything they work for day in and day out! It is NOT worth the risk. Oh and by the way…do you work for AST? Oh and one last question…do you work for AST??

Naw man, I don’t work for AST. They’ve been kind enough to answer my questions over the years, and my strength has benefitted greatly. I’m respectful of their help, and I pass the word on. I’ve done the same about this site (even though I’m new to it). I’m a natural athlete, and have never used prohormones. I understand the concern about the accidental contamination of protein… (really I do)… I’m just saying that they also provide information on their site that might be of use to trainers. As such, one can avoid their product, yet still benefit from their knowledge. ~ Imagine if in one-fell-swoop, after 1988, everyone who could benefit, had avoided all the information that Charlie has been kind enough to make available in various forms. Imagine what a disservice that would be to the man, his efforts, and to athletes and trainers in general. (See the parallel?) Imagine if Marion and Tim could train with him without all this silly media-pushed hub-bub. ~ Again, I truly understand the concern about using a supplement made by a company that also makes prohormones… but to label a company as untrustworthy because of that isn’t going to benefit anyone.

Btw ~ I understand the suspicion… (but it was unwarranted). No, I don’t work for AST. Much respect to all in this house.

Just because a company might …
A. have an interesting website
B. answer questions you might put to them
… does not mean they are the best suppleir of supps for somebody.

The ‘comparison’ with CF is just ludacris - I con’t see what you’re trying to say -anyway it doesn’t even warrant comment.

But I’m confused - you say that becuase of the information on their webpage “one can avoid their product” ???

Surely you have some interest in AST?

no23 ~ You have a healthy skepticism. Thank you for that. There is much I can learn from such an interaction. It is a good and instructive counter for my innate enthusiast nature. The weakness of an enthusiast can be in only being aware of (what they interpret) as the benefits of the thing for which they feel enthusiastic. Their strength lies in putting ‘the full weight of their shoulder’ (metaphorically speaking) behind a thing that is deserving of it. The weakness of skepticism is that it can refuse to see the benefits of something… even in the face of its weaknesses. The strength of the skeptic is that they are not easily lead astray, and not easily fooled by the blindness of the status quo.

To address your response…

You said:
“Just because a company might …
A. have an interesting website
B. answer questions you might put to them
… does not mean they are the best suppleir of supps for somebody.”

Absolutely in agreement. It wasn’t the fact that they responded that I was speaking of… it was the QUALITY of their response, as well as the quality of the many articles that are offered FREELY on that site, and the effect that info had on my own aims.

You said:
“The ‘comparison’ with CF is just ludacris - I con’t see what you’re trying to say -anyway it doesn’t even warrant comment.”

Not “ludicrous” at all… perhaps unclearly stated, so I’ll try once more. I hyperextended a concept so that it would read more clearly, in an attempt to show a parallel to CF. Sorry if I failed in my attempts, and utter apologies if I caused any offence whatsoever either to Charlie, to yourself (no 23) or to anyone else on this forum. From what I’d observed (back when I was a young kid, and used to train at York University… back when Ben was running, and Charlie was coaching him), it seemed to me that Charlie endured a lot due to the fact that he possessed an inquisitive mind that brought him to conclusions that ran counter to some. On top of that, they brought him great results (and so envy from the status quo),
and he also brought further distinctions to the (then) body and canon of knowledge of how sprinters could be trained. Just as (historically) many folk who have scorched a new path have suffered the scorn of others. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Charlie hadn’t suffered the similarly in the early days when he was an athlete himself. That is the mantle that has been thrust upon him.

Going back to the parallel thang…
A. Just because Charlie did things that didn’t align with the training beliefs of some, doesn’t negate the fact that his ‘against the grain’ nature brought him to a wealth of knowledge that is profound, AND proven in the field of experience… AND should be allowed to benefit any aspect of athletics that it can.

(Watch closely now…)

B. Just because AST produces prohormones, and some believe that they would (understandably) not want to use their protein due the possibility
of contamination, which would grossly affect their amateur athletics aims, doesn’t negate the fact that AST’s wealth of knowledge is profound, AND proven in the field of experience (they too have trained champion athletes)… AND that one can still freely benefit from their knowledge by taking the time to read their articles, reviewing their research, and taking a look at their Q & A’s… without having to buy ANYTHING AT ALL that they sell.

I can’t make it any clearer than that. I’m NOT (by any stretch of teh imagination) saying that the profound suffering Charlie Francis has endured from being a lifetime pioneer in the field of athletics is parallel to the FAR lesser pain to AST, of an amateur athlete choosing to avoid AST’s protein supplement.

(And by the way, I’m glad that the point was made about the possibility of contamination, because it allows me to become more careful myself, should I, at my advanced age, consider competing again. As such, I’d welcome your suggestions as to a company that produces a quality protein supplement, where the contamination possibilities of prohormones is nil).

You said:
“But I’m confused - you say that becuase of the information on their webpage “one can avoid their product” ???”

Again, let me state this clearly. AST provides articles, research, a free training program (that can be adapted to one’s specific needs), and they respond to questions for free. You do NOT have to buy any of their products to benefit from their information. I didn’t buy anything from them for the first couple of years, and I don’t live in the US, so their protein can be hard to come by here… but their training principles STILL benefitted me greatly. Links to some of the articles are provided here for your convenience:

http://ast-ss.com/articles/AuthorArticleListing.asp?AuthorID=2

http://ast-ss.com/articles/AuthorArticleListing.asp?AuthorID=1

http://ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/cribb_review_main.asp

http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp

You said:
Surely you have some interest in AST?

(sigh) No… I have absolutely no connection with the company, save for the fact that I buy the occasional tub of protein. I do NOT work for them, nor do I wish to work for them, nor have I ever worked for them in the past.

Can’t a brutha, outta basic kindness, and a wish to help others, simply say, “As far as my knowledge goes, this stuff is cool, y’all might benefit from it”, without having to get his a_ _ whooped, and without having to shoulder such levels of suspicion? Damn! :wink:

I realize that there is no way for me to convince you that the manner of my conduct does not betray any vested interest in AST’s company. So due to that, and for the fear that I have caused some offence to No23, Charlie, or anyone else, I will not mention AST again. (Forgive the fact that I’d mentioned them in another post somewhere else).

Ok - I see where you’re coming from now … points taken.

I actually agree with all you’ve said.

Forgive me but your posts sounded of AST bias (no offense meant).

But fundamentally - as Herb points out - miniscule elemnts of Ph’s can smear or even destroy a career - so therefore it’s not worth the risk.

If a company gets a name for contamination among tested athletes I will acknowledge the disadvantage and bad publicity that creates - but I can’t have sympathy for them.

At the end of the day the intention is to advise, make athletes aware and then finally let them decide…

Contamination isn’t deliberate. It just takes a few micrograms of contaminant to cause a positive test within a few hours of consumption (it only takes 2 billionths of a gram!)

Charlie, no23, Herb and all ~ thanks very(!) kindly for bringing all these most important and most weighing points to my attention. I dearly hope that no offence was taken from my comments.