What’s everyone’s stance on milk? There is so much negative writing about milk these days, that i’m starting to wonder whether it may be responsible for the subcutaneous fat and/or water retension in my mid section. I’m not really sure what is going on.

I have a good deal of muscle definition in every part of my body, except my abdomen. My strength to bodyweight ratio is higher than all my training partners and my definition is greater in every area except my abdomen. Almost all of my training partners have quite defined abdominals, and yet i cannot even see mine (never have really). My abs are far stronger than their’s and i do more work for them as well. Even though my waist is incredibly small for someone my size (5’10" 93kg with a 32") and my shoulders are the broadest in the group (i have a very good v taper), i have very soft fat around my mid section. This really is starting to annoy me now.

I have reduced my food intake by decreasing slightly the amount i eat at each of my four daily meals (i have been doing this for many months now) and i have increased my activity steadily over many months. I have started adding extra sprints to my training sessions, and in the mornings i’ve been running 4 x 800 metre sprints with 2 minutes rest imbetween. I really did not want to start running any distances over 200m, but i thought the increased aerobic activity may kickstart the fat loss. The result is that i have gotten even more defined in every area, apart from, you’ve guessed it, my abdomen which remains the same. More importantly, because of a high level of activity and a reduced calorie intake, my sprint and strength training have started to suffer.

My conclusion is that this cannot be anything to do with the balance of calories taken in, compared to the amount expended. It has to be something to do with a certain food i’m consuming, namely milk. I have noticed among my friends (both trained and non- trained) that those who consume the most milk tend not to be lean in the mid- section (and they are usuually fatter all over). Conversely, almost all of the black guys i train with have great definition in the abdomen and they don’t drink milk because they say they can’t stomach it. There are another two white guys in the group who have very good abdominal definition, and they both said that they drink next to no milk. Could this be the link? Should i cut out milk from my diet, or am i confusing cause and effect?

I really enjoy the taste of milk and can drink 2 pints at a time without any adverse side effects. Normally i drink about 3 pints per day. It is a cheap source of protein (good for students, like myself) and is so easy to consume after training when i am too knackered to prepare a proper meal. I think i really would miss it if i eliminated it from my diet.

Other people i have spoken to about this say that because my genetic make- up is Northern European (with light skin, red/brown hair, and a good deal of body hair), i have a greater tendency to store bodyfat around my abdomen area. What’s more, Northern Europeans are the group that consume the most milk. What should i do to gain abdominal definition? Does anyone know whether there is a connection between milk/dairy consumption and a lack of abdominal definition?

I have never heard of dairy milk increasing the proportion of fat deposition around the abs. However, milk and possibly all dairy products are associated with various disease states including cancer. Check this article:

BTW, I do eat dairy, otherwise my diet would be boring…I just try and limit it to some extent.

Funny you should mention this, because after a brief period of not doing any tempo work I put on some weight. Usually tempo 3 times a week takes care of this pretty fast but this time I dont seem to loose any weight at all and the only thing I do different from before is drinking milk - 3x1/2 litres a day as opposed to none before. I have been doing tempo for about a month now.

Everything between the heaven and the earth has been linked to cancer though…

…many things not as significant in being linked to causing it though.

Remember the holy scriptures…
“…a land which flows with milk and honey.”
People knew a thing or two in those days…
But of course to much is to much.

Very different milk.

I just cut out milk completely because where I’m at raw’s impossible to find.

I think it’s different for everyone but I know when I stopped drinking milk ( totally skimmed ) my BF levels dropped considerably -
I think individual digestion is the key issue here

People often knew (and often still believe) old wives’ tales…some theoretically possible…some absolute BS…

Some theoretically possible…according to the new gospel.
Some people, myself included, believe old wives’ tales (and myths and fairytales) to be decadent remnants of older knowledge. A knowledge, of course percieved, and therefore presented, in a different way than present day science.
There used to be a saying that there is more between heaven and earth than what the preacher preaches from his pulpit. It could just as easily be said that there is more between heaven and earth than what the scientist preaches to his students. At least the preasts where often cunning enough, in life as in their trade, to reckon with something incomprehensible.
And lets face it, most scientists today are just labrats standing on the shoulders of those that has gone before them. They do their work according to some “objective” knowledge they have learnt once and for all.
I’m not arguing with the practical implementations based on this science, but only with the conclusions drawn from them. The scientists that carry out the experiments are often the least able to draw sound conclusions from them. The old philosophy of science is not any longer in accord with the new “law of science”. A law that hides itself behind thousands of faceless discoveries, preaching objectivity.
It is also quite comical in a sense that modern man, whatever small his grasp of it, carry with him in life a strong sense of pride in modern science, a strong sense of pride in beliving man to finally know it all, when he cant even arrange his social-life to the least degree.
Of course this means that the social-sciences must invent theories to the point that a social-harmony can never be established, and in fact are alien to human-nature. A nature only they themselves have the tools and the power to interpret of course.
And so it goes…it’s a Perpetum Mobile and because of the advances in life modern science has brought us very few questions the underlying fundamentals of this science. In fact very few have the knowledge to do so.

I s’pose the golden rule - according to the scriptures of St Charles of Canada -

would be -

’ If it doth work 4 u - then it doth doest good ’ :smiley:

plz note - Not meaning to poke fun at religion here - I’ll celebrate anything - Diwali / christmas / rammadan - if it envolves fireworks or food ( cept milk lol ) I’m there

Im a member of another board and many people there complain that milk can “bloat” them. On close inspection and some experimentation, I noticed that it bloated me too, only if i drank 4 pints in one day though…
I usually drink 2 pints a day and am fine with minimal, if any, bloating. I think thatsome people react different though and can bloat to smaller amounts.

Try having 1 week without milk just to see what its like. Also drink lots of water incase you have any water retention.

ps. some people complain about bloating with bread! so take this info with a pinch of salt

Hey rob ryder,
You also have to look in a physics perspective. The fact that you have increased your volume of work (ie. up from 200m to now 800m) you have taken the correct approach to weight lose. Speed is an independent variable, has little bearing on caloric (fat) expenditure.

For ie. if you decide to cover a distance of 1 mile either by jogging (30-40% VO2Max) or sprinting (90>%) it (if that is even possible to sprint 1 mile), you will burn about the same amount of calories. The increase in intensity will increase your aerobic benefit (VO2Max) but will not benefit fat loss, since an increase in intensity will not use fat as a primary source of feul.

A bit of a “catch 22”, if your goal is to increase your aerobic capacity (VO2 Max) then you should increase your intensity at the expense of less fat loss but if you want to increase fat loss then lower your intensity (from 100%VO2Max) at the expense of not increasing your aerobic capacity.

Patience, commitment/dedication and persistance are the key elements to success. In this case weight loss. GL

Now it’s some time since basic physiology class but I think you’re wrong.

  1. Metabolic rate is increased for longer following high intensity exercise than low intensity
  2. An adaptation to training is utilising fats at higher intensities
  3. Anaerobic glycolysis depletes glycogen stores >15 times (?) quicker. These stores must be replenished before any subsequent food can be stored as fat.
  4. Anaerobic exercise produces latate acid that stimulates GH production (GH increases utilisation of fatty acids and decreases utilisation of glucose…)


  • Running economy generally increases with speed (since more elastic energy is reutilised from the tendons)

I just drink milk with whey post-workout everyday and have noticed little-to-no bloating or fat gains from it. Actually, since I started taking whey with milk (2%) I’ve noticed more definition in my abdomen than just straight meat and water.

What are everyone’s thoughts on just having milk 1-2x’s a day w/whey? It seems to be helping me, but what about the long-term?

I drink up to a half gallon every day and love it.

400stud, long term health re. milk is explained in the article/letter and many other resources, but regarding taking with whey protein post workout, the milk possibly slows the absorbtion of the whey down which partly prevents the reason for consuming whey at this time.


The research on milk and insulin action is very clear…milk has a three fold increase in insulin action…as for the hormones and other problems…I would reduce the use of it but not freak out about it. Organic is not THAT bad.

Well what else could I take whey with b/c water and whey is absolutely nasty…like I threw out a drink the other day it was so horrible. If I can’t take it with milk, what else could I take it with? Would skim milk be better?

Clemson, milk may promote insulin response well but I was refering to absorption in the gut. Milk protein obviously takes longer to digest than whey powder and it is the digestion of the milk protein which could slow the digestion and absorption of the whey powder.

400stud, there are flavoured whey powders that taste fine with water…the basic wheys from EAS and Prolab for example.