http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article1991114.ece
Is this article really necessary? I think the religious beliefs of those with fame should not be publicized (other then Dawkins, the pope, etc)…it doesn’t really matter what they think. It has nothing to do with what they’re famous for so why’s it matter?
Also, a point to add is that all successful people have their reasons for doing what they do. When it all comes down to it it’s really about confidence in their actions and how they get there is their information to personally convey if anyone wants to hear. They could write a book if they want…and the people interested will in turn buy it. To make this type of thing relayed by media though…I just don’t agree with that.
As to address the contents of the article, it’s interesting that he changed over after retiring. As I said earlier his belief in god during those years drove him to confidence in his actions and he harnessed that. Now, he doesn’t need that confidence so his beleifs deteriorate. Not suprising…a lot of people need comfort in knowing in an afterlife. Some do not…however they’re still religious for different reasons. It’s all individual!
Btw that wasn’t directed at you. That was to the author lol.
Jonathon’s religious beliefs have long been used by Christians to ‘sell’ their faith. His conversion can therefore make him an even more valuable tool to destroy what Richard Dawkins calls ‘the God Delusion’.
As a graduate in physics I always questioned how a well educated and intelligent man could reconcile his faith with the glaring falsehoods, dodgy morals and inconsistencies of scripture (not to mention the impact of scientific theories such as evolution and the honest critique of an objective mind).
I’ve always believed it was complete arrogance (or ignorance) for athletes to thank God for letting them win (see also Carl Lewis, Justin Gatlin etc). Sure, God helped you win a race (over the 7 other guys who may have prayed equally hard) but ignored the several million children dying of starvation, HIV and other diseases!
I think non religous people are worse. They think everything they receive in life is because they did it. At least religious people can acknowledge it wasn’t all their doing. And anyone with half a brain cell can tell when someone is just thanking God because they won an award or set a world record. I mean you think guy from boston is gonna justify his faith because Matt Damon thanked God at an awards ceremony. I don’t think so.
??!? Success comes from an educated well designed program; disciplined and consistant training; and precise preparation for competition. God really doesn’t come into it.
Refer to my first post.
prehaps you should clarify rather than try to mask both faults and merits in your post with ambiguity.
I hope you are joking.
Read what you’ve written yourself. I’m both a scientist (one who has taught earth science, planetary science, marine geology, paleontology and evolution courses at the college level) and a Christian who has spent decades around both Christian and non-Christian scientists and non-scientists, I can say without reservation the most arrogant, and often the most ingnorant, are non-Christian scientists. Your quotes above are a case-in-point. I can also say that all my training in science has not given me any additional insight into the question of a Supreme Being.
TO EACH HIS OWN.
Exactly
Rupert
Cap letter man, what???
Which major scientists in paleontology and evolutionary science are Christians?
What sort of litmus test is this??
I agree, science gives no greater insight into a supreme being. It can dismiss some interpretations written in early history.
I am curious. I don’t know of any so I must be pretty sheltered when it comes to the Christian science movement.
Why believe in God?
- Fear
As humans we may be unique among animals in that we possess the intelligence to understand that one day we will die. God offers the promise of an internal afterlife PROVIDING we adhere to certain ‘rules’. What an especially useful tool in a time before police enforced law and order… and more recently as a motivator to African slaves in America.
Presumably, the things you like in this life - sex, sport, food etc can’t be taken into the next life anyway so why so keen to gain entry?
- Upbringing and Education
The majority of people take on the faith of their parents. Assume, as an example that the Muslim God is actually the ‘right’ one. What of those good honest people who had the misfortune to be born into Christian or Sikh or Jewish faith, are they damned to eternity in hell? Even the most passionate Muslim or Christian would be something else had they been adopted at the time of their birth. And if you think people of an opposing faith won’t be ‘damned’, then what is the point of believing in either? Lets just be good people in a God-less world.
If God really wanted us to believe in Him then why did events described in the Bible occur in such a small geographical area? What of those poor people live in South America or Australasia who worship the Sun or Earth. Is it their fault? What also of the millions of people misfortunate to be born before the birth of Christ? Were they also tragically destined to a life in hell?
- Moral Values
The idea that God and characters from scripture are moral examples to uphold is plainly false. The Bible for example is littered with examples of individuals (e.g. Moses, Joshua etc)committing acts of mass genocide because ‘God ordered them to’. Abraham was told to burn his son Isaac as an offering and offer his wife as a whore!! Religion generally shows little respect for women, forbids homosexuality, promotes guilt, represses sexual expression, is a barrrier to integration and has been the rout cause of the majority conflict throughout history.
Most modern theists will distance themselves from certain aspects of scripture but if you can pick and choose which morals are worth following then what real value do those morals have in the first place?
- The Unexplained
It is typical for anything that cannot be explained to be attributed to God. We once believed the world was flat, science has proven that is not the case. It was also believed that God ‘created’ us but we now accept that evolution is reponsible for our development from single cell organisms into the many millions of species currently cohabiting the planet. With the continued advances of science the ‘unexplained’ in our world is being reduced, and so resultantly, our need for God is becoming redundant.
An interesting question for religious people who are prepared to accept the theory of evolution: If we evolved from primates such as apes (as so much evidence suggests) at what point did we become sufficiently ‘human’ to gain entry into heaven? OR are apes also allowed in?
‘You can’t prove he doesn’t exhist?’ No, but equally I can’t prove that fairies or goblins don’t exhist. Does that make them true also? Simply put, not proving something is true is not evidence that it is.
- Personal Experience
The belief that any individual’s prayers will be heard and acted upon could only be described as arrogance or ignorance. To believe that God will help you find a partner, get a job, win a race etc whilst millions die of starvation and disease is plainly ludicrous. In life good and bad things will happen and in the fall out of anything bad one can generally find some good (‘silverlining’). To use any of this as an argument for God is weak indeed.
- Scripture
Any historian would baulk at the validity of a document written 2000 years ago from an amalgamation of several contradicting gospels; rewritten how ever many times and then translated from an ancient language. You really believe Mary was a virgin? The Hebrew word for virgin can also be interpreted as ‘young girl’. … No I can’t PROVE miracles didn’t happen but I can prove that historically the Bible is highly inaccurate. The census that required Joseph to return to Bethleham for example – it simply didn’t happen!
i’m pretty much for all intents and purposes an atheist, so i figure i’ll jump in.
my understanding of the bible, is that if you belive in the trinity and belive jesus died for your sins and try to repent for your sins, i.e. confessional or its equivilent in methodist sects(self confession?!?) then you’re good to go. -> which is kind of bullshit in my opinion, for example, the youth group in my town is a bunch of fuckups, and basicly there motto seems to be “make mistakes in his name”, and then not really feel guilty about it but act like you are, basicly a joke.
in the more linent versions of christanity as long as you’re sorry, and belive jesus is enternally picking up the slack from being nailed to a cross 2k years ago then you’re in biz. which doesn’t really make much sense.
also, the catholic church basicly makes me throwup in my mouth a little. total POS. feel good christians, while worthy of my pity don’t warrent disdain, just more of a smirk.
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.” -C.S. Lewis
basicly sums up my feeling on all religion. buddism being an intriguing exception.
one other thing, atheists are largely more tolerable than born again christians. becasue they never seem to feel the need to shove their religion down your throat.
also not to generalize(o.k. total generalization) but atheists seem more intellegent on the whole. i.e. john scopes trial & clarence darrow vs. william jennings bryan.
“I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche
“If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion.”
-Edmond de Goncourt
“A thorough reading and understanding of the Bible is the surest path to atheism”
-Donald Morgan
3 of my favorite atheist quotes.
well, i guess i threw myself out there.
ibsrctma. (in before some rightous christian tears me apart).
11th commandment: thou shalt not shove thy religion down others throat.
everyone should try to follow that.
Not that I want to drag the debate out any further but have you all forgot Sir Isaac Newton; considered by many to be the single greatest scientist of all-time?
OK. Fair enough. So answer just one question, as a physicist.
From where, and how, did all the matter and/or energy that we know as the universie come from? I’m not talking about the Big Bang or the Singularity, both of which I believe to be fairly reasonable explanations of the data. But before the Singularity, when there was nothing but an empty, matter-free, energy-free “void”…how did something, anything, simply just pop into existence? If you can’t even give a viable, possible answer to that question, then you shouldn’t ask so much proof of those that believe it required a supernatural hand.