Jim Crow America???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1205060,00.html

brings up a lot of hot social issues in the U.S. and quite frankly, he’s right.

Please prove that American Idol voters are racists. Are they so irretrievably bigoted that they can’t stand to let black performers triumph on a ridiculous show, so they call enmasse to support the white people?

The proof is in the voter’s results!!! The 3 black women are considered the MOST talented by all of the judges(they call them the “3 Divas”) and have gotten praised by Elton John and Barry Manilow, yet are continually at the bottom of the charts! Tell me that this fact does not disturb you…

No, it doesn’t particularly. Produce a poll of the respondents, or a representative statistical sample, that says “I voted for the honkey 'cause I want to keep black people down” and maybe I’ll believe you.

If I turn down three African-American applicants for a job and higher a white man I believe is more qualified, that is not racist in the least. It’s life.

But, they’re not more qualified! The 3 black women are all more talented thatn the white singers, yet they’re always on the bottom! Why is this not sinking in to your head?

Because there’s no objective measurement. Judging musical talent isn’t like running 100 meters. It is subjective, not objective.

Look, the Guardian will never miss a chance to subtly (or not so subtly) suggest that American society is completely racist, evil and corrupt. I reject the premise. If some sort of scientific measurement could be produced, I’d believe that American Idol voters are racist. Until then, Elton John is the last man on earth I’ll listen to for social commentary.

Well would you like me to post the Washington Post’s, NY Times and USA Today’s coverage of the story? All three seemed at least a little disturbed by this. When you’ve got ALL 3 judges, the host of the show and two guest celebrity singers saying that these 3 black women are the MOST TALENTED, then it can’t be simply subjective! It IS objective!!!

By the way, your title is here is offensive. Even assuming that American Idol voters all decided to channel their racism into a vote for musical stardom, that does not in any way bring Jim Crow back to America. The only way someone could equate the two is if they never lived through the pain of Jim Crow.

Please explain how Jim Crow and racism do not equate…

Because (again, this is assuming that American Idol voters are racist which I find questionable at best) these young ladies are going to be very wealthy from recording contracts even though they lost. Losing a vote to win a silly pop show is a lot different than getting hung from a tree and mutilated because you tried to vote.

Its a lot different from being called certain names that I won’t repeat here, being forced into subserviency, murdered because you want to vote, unable to serve on a jury, beaten because you looked at a white woman. That was Jim Crow.

Sorry to Charlie and Number 2, I know this site isn’t about this stuff, but I get passionate sometimes.

Prophet, I’ve got no beef with you. God bless you and yours. Maybe we should talk about whether Tim Montgomery can pull things together in time for the Olympics… :slight_smile:

You, see the problem here that you’re not understanding is that 20million people have consistently voted the 3 most talented singers, who are black, to the bottom of the heap. I agree that being murdered over your race is more heinous, but the point I was trying to make is that not a whole lot has changed in this country. Open up your eyes buddy, racism is still racism. The only thing that has changed is that discrimination is now de facto instead of de jure. And since you obviously are lucky enough to never have had to experience racism first-hand and don’t know, racism hurts no matter what form it comes in.

A great deal has changed in this country. America of 2004 is hardly recognizable from the America of 1954. Blacks can vote, work, live where they want, and speak out without fear of government-sanctioned execution or silencing.

I’ll give you an example. 50 years ago U.S. Senators, on the floor of the Senate, used some of the most vile, evil language to describe blacks that I have ever heard. It was accepted. No one held them accountable, and frankly most folks didn’t care that much.

About a year ago, a U.S. Senator commented on one of his very old Senate colleagues who was about to retire that he “wished America had voted for you for President.” That’s it. Well, it turns out that the old Senator had run for President 55 years ago on the segregationist ticket, and had since renounced his racist past. But that didn’t matter. The younger Senator was drummed out of his leadership post and darn near drummed out of the Senate, just for a remark that may or may not have been insensitive. That is how far we have come.

And finally, you couldn’t be more wrong about me having experienced racism. Hatred for people because of their skin or religion happens all the time. But I don’t need to use that to establish my bona fides to talk on the subject.

I rest my case…

Not sure I understand you, but oh well. God bless prophet. I’m sure we’ll talk again.

Actually, I think the theory here is that the three “Divas” split the vote for that style of singer and allowed those others to place better than they should have. Kind of like an election where you have two democrats running and one republican. Even if there are more democrats voting, if they split the democratic vote between them, then the republican can win.

The fact that out of the final 6 singers there are 3 african-americans kind of shoots a hole in the racism charge (at least with respect to AI.) Seems to me that is pretty significant representation.

For the record, I think George Huff should win :slight_smile:

Don’t forget we also got our own month now. Lucky us!!!

I think the result was a reflection on the voting process, rather than the voters. Remember that not everyone is voting based on the music. People might have decided they liked the personality of a particular performer. If they turn in a poor performance they might feel like they have to protect them from elimination by voting for them. Conversely, if someone performs well their fans might think they are safe for this week and not vote.

Don’t forget that one of the weakest singers in the group is black and he polled fine this week.

The same thing happened a few times (three) in Australian Idol and also in American Idol. The results are based on so many factors that it is very hard to predict accurately who will poll well. Picking the better musician is much easier.

I don’t think the forum is the place to discuss the topic, but the thred was started, and I can’t shut up:

First of all one should be aware of the value of the “culture” that is produced in all these shows - no matter if American Idol, or similar “Star Search” shows all over Europe, Australia - it’s crap.
A song produced there is something like a Burger, a comics book or a bottle of Pepsi - they have nothing to with Art, so it’s not really a question of better or worse. But the masses (including me) like these things and they CONSUME them.
But to like one of these singers more than the other is more a thing like having your burger rather at Burger King than McDonalds, to prefer Coke over Pepsi, Batman over Superman.
So it’s fully sujective and only a matter of personal sympathy/taste.

In a country like the US, where less than 20% of the population are of African descent, in the UK with less than 5% are why should people not vote for what they like (for which reason ever).

I am living in a racially mixed relationship - I really don’t like my wifes (Black) Soul Music, she hates my (White) Alternative Metal - that does not make us racist?

Does it mean I would have to vote for Usher, when I like Blink 182, only not to seem racist?

In fact minorities (not only of African descent) seem to be over-represented in entertianment industry all over US, CAN, EU. I feel MUCH more uncomfortable about how small the number of Black People in managing positions or in certain jobs (like IT) is, than being worried how many Black Popstars there are in the charts or Black comedians in the movies and on tv.

It could be more dangerous to see Black people win these completely unimportant competitions most of the time because one could suspect that SOMEBODY wants to show the masses (us) a picture that seems so right, when behind the curtain (where it really matters) a lot of things still might be wrong…
…and for Elton - if he would take part and end up at last spot - maybe he would call the voters homophobic…

George Huff?
You gotta be kidding me ? Seriously man? :slight_smile:
You crazy? :smiley: - I can’t stand that guy.
OK, OK, he is a good singer - but he sure as hell annoys me … AAaah

Now that Fantasia girl on the other hand … she has charisma AND can sing.

That red haired guy wasn’t a great (he was very good though) singer IMO - but I like to see him as he was someone different to listen to and I enjoyed him for his honest, brave personality (16 yo) and the fact he certainly wasn’t pop-star -like …

Sowjet - Good solid intelligent post man.

Incidently - I don’t think it’s correct/fair to use a subjective example of voting to argue about racism.

If the US is similar at all to Europe - the majority of the people actually voting for the people are young high school girls and the likelyhood of them voting for young males is alot higher - isn’t it …?

So now America is sexist not racist!!!
:slight_smile: