OR. Maybe he wasn’t as well prepared this time!!! “It happens” is often the transferrence of responsibility for your own results. “Getting up to fight these guys” means training hard and avoiding “lifestyle” traps.
Where does psychology fit in?
Number 1: preparation, No 2: Preparation, No 3: Preparation…
No 97: Psychology
Exactly! Jones was at number 97 leading up to his heavy weight fight. I stated that point earlier. I would have to agree with Herb, seeing how after Jones beat Tarver the first time, he spoke of a possible fight with Tyson and said if it doesn’t happen then he (Jones) wants to retire.
Charlie did you have any athletes that enjoyed practice and performed well, but when it came to performing in front of a stadium at elite level they went to pieces? I’m trying to think of examples in sprinting but I’m struggling.
I think this is much less likely in sprinting (especially well prepared sprinters) than in other sports, because of the way sprinting becomes automatic with continued practice (and it’s a ‘closed’ skill perhaps requiring less use of the brain to carry out - something I would have to check up on). There is little to no decision making, or skill adaptation involved in the 100m obviously, compared to other sports with open skills.
Doubts and anxiety could severely interfere with cognitive processes of decision making or adapting more open skills (because of the overlap in the brain modules used for these processes). Sprinting may also be more resistant than other skills to extreme levels of arousal, again because of it’s automatic (subconscious) nature when well rehearsed.
These are just my first thoughts, I’ll have to look at the research behind these ideas for support.
Of course you’ll have athletes who have problems under pressure, but the cure is, often as not, preparation for the event. This includes adequate performance level and competitive experience to handle the event in question.
You don’t go to the Olympics or World Championships for experience. There should be an appropriate progression of competitions, matched to the athlete’s standards as he progresses. Ben had had years of experience against the toughest competition in the world. Unfortunately, this isn’t always the case.
I was asked by the press if I felt concern for Ben at the Rome World Championships, as this had been the track where “Harry Jerome choked”
I bristled at this assinine question, as they were talking about a man who had been my friend and a mentor.
At the 1960 Olympics, Harry Jerome entered as a 19 year old kid who’d come from no-where to tie the World Record for the 100m. He’d been provided with no international experience, no therapy, no competitions beyond his college season months earlier, and was burdened with the unreasonable expectations of idiots.
Predictably enough, he pulled a muscle while leading his semi-final. It wasn’t Harry who choked- it was the do-nothing/know-nothing Canadian Officials.
I love this board…charlie…every time you give me more…thanks.
I often believe people who run to psychologists are those who subconciously ‘know’ their preparation isn’t right and are looking for someone to concvince them they’ve done enough when they themselves know they haven’t…
(It’s the same with supplements)
I take your points alright.
I think a comparison (imperfect analogy though it may be) to soldiers would illustrate my point.
Modern techniques today ensure that very few soldiers entering into combat have problems performing (shooting at the enemy). This is claimed to be due to different psychological aspect of training methods (increased desensitisation to fighting). Compare that to the first half of the 20th century, when only about 10-15% of soldiers actually fired their guns in combat in the first world war. So the claim is that different psychological training (conditioning) makes a very important difference. I believe there are still some soldiers who completely fail to perform (and maybe many who perform below par), but with different psychological training (cognitive not simply conditioning) they might be able to perform better too.** There’s physical and technical preparation, but you can’t prepare in exactly the same conditions.
*This is just going by documentaries and some articles, I don’t have a proper reference so it might not all be true, **some of it’s a bit speculative. I’m going to have to look up the theory to see if this is spefically backed up.
This is very likely true- but success stories aften such an encounter would be rare to non-existant, so you wouldn’t likely hear about it.
Thie is true, but, thankfully, not analgous.
It is a horrific use of psychology, but de-humanizing the enemy is known to be effective.
During the US Civil war, it was known that a majority of soldiers would NOT shoot the enemy. Many rifles were found on the battlefield filled with up to 6 or 7 loads of shot (they kept raming a new load down the barrel without ever firing the previous round). They preferred to die rather than kill. By WW2, the rate was around 50%, but, now, it approaches 100%.
That makes it a bit clearer, I’m struggling to apply what I know to sports, but I think it’s best to form some ideas for myself first before just reading a textbook and regurgitating it all like I could do (I’ll probably do that later). For the soldiers I forgot the (attempted) dehumanising aspect of their preparation, that goes along with conditioning in their technical training, the latter which I was focusing on.
I’m now more concerned with comparing psychology of different sports rather than looking for generalised theories.
I’ve experienced a dramatic drop in performance in national golf competitions first hand myself, compared to club and regional level, even though I was reasonably prepared. I want to figure out if the same would be likely if I was to compete in national athletics competitions (I’d have to use my imagination for that), where the skills are far more ‘closed’.
The fact that some people just don’t understand the importance of preparation actually annoyed me as well when I was playing - I also think it’s common for those who don’t compete to overestimate the importance of ‘positive thinking’ and underestimate the importance of preparation. I’ve tried to explain this too many times, now I don’t bother.
JimboUKdec,
To continue the soldier analogy. Talking with veterans in my own family and friends fathers who fought in WW2 and reading books or watching programs on the subject, frontline soldiers all say the same thing. They prepared themselves physically, they made sure their weapons were always in perfect working order and they fought for their buddies next to them. They didn’t fight for a cause, the flag, home etc. etc. (don’t get me wrong - they believed in fighting for these ideals- they are men to be honoured) But, day in day out they fought for each other. And as they all say, a frontline soldier who didn’t have any friends didn’t last long on his own.
I believe you apply that to sport (hopefully without comparing sport to war as some moronic athletes and coaches like to do) by telling your athletes that they must train smart and hard and on game day play for each other with all their hearts, use their brains and when the game is over they can walk off the field with their heads up regardless of the score.
Athletes need to know that their coach is an excellent technician, teacher, tactician and strategist, that is willing to learn and adapt and most of all the athlete needs to know the Coach “has his back”. We’re all in this together.
Hope this helps,
Football Coach
P.S. Good movies for this is “Blackhawk Down” and “We Were Soldiers” plus books by Stephen Ambrose including the mini-series “Band of Brothers”
“Having their backs” also means that the athletes can rely on the coach not to blame them when things don’t go as planned.
Blame Desmond Morris! If I ever catch him on is own he’ll be experiencing the practical consequences of what he preaches!
I know what you’re talking about, my Band of Brothers book is well thumbed, and I liked the tv series. I think the most relevant line from Blackhawk Down is Eric Bana’s line - ‘They won’t understand’ (the scene when he’s talking to Hartnett near the end), because we won’t unless we go through it.
Maybe you should watch Arnolds doc. Pumping Iron. Some mind ideas there. And his book, educatiion of a bodybuilder, somewhere in there are great jokes he plays on others. At the end of the day though, Arnold had done the preperation up to no. 97 before he done these mind tricks.